A Soaring Transformation
Release Date:
Change is hard. And that’s not the first time we’ve said those words on this podcast. When it involves breaking through entrenched practices within a company, it can be especially difficult – but not impossible. With a little buy-in, some quick wins to demonstrate the possibilities, and some awareness to the importance of customer centricity, you can create a culture that views CX as a game-winning strategy. Host Sara Walker welcomes Talar Ozcanian, director of customer experience business aviation and helicopter aviation training at CAE, an aviation simulation and technology company, and winners of the digital transformation category at the 2024 US CX Awards, to discuss their digital transformation.
Talar Ozcanain
CAE
Connect with Talar
In this episode:
- Chapter 1: Introduction to CX Transformation (00:01 – 01:49)
- Chapter 2: Understanding CAE and the Business Aviation Industry (01:50 – 04:51)
- Chapter 3: Catalyst for Change: The Role of the Pandemic (04:52 – 05:58)
- Chapter 4: Developing a CX Strategy with Cross-Department Collaboration (05:59 – 08:39)
- Chapter 5: Building a Customer-Centric Culture (08:40 – 12:34)
- Chapter 6: Emphasizing Digital Transformation (12:35 – 18:14)
- Chapter 7: Continuous Improvement and the Future of CX at CAE (18:15 – 22:34)
- Chapter 8: Take-Home Value and Conclusion (22:35 – 26:34)
Highlights
Customer Centricity is like a movement
“…this is one of my favorite topics. You know, customer centricity, it’s like a movement. First, I cannot say it enough, but we have leadership buy-in. Okay. CAE’s Division president for business Aviation, for example, is is a big sponsor and a champion when it comes to CX. He’s very involved in CX, and he encourages, recognizes our efforts and challenges us in a way to keep us on our toes.”
Two Different Journeys
“…we have two journeys: we have our customer journey and we also have our client journey. So we have the pilots who come to our training centers to train. But there’s also those decision makers that basically decide where the pilot is going to go train. And that’s another journey. And we weren’t surveying that side of the customer journey, that side of the touch points at different touch points. I’m excited to share that we are finally going to begin collecting feedback from our decision makers. Therefore, pilots come to the training center to train. But there’s also those we call decision makers, and they are the ones who decide where the pilots will go train.”
Transcript
Sara:00:00:01
Sometimes the hardest part of being a CX leader is knowing when things need to change.
Talar:00:00:05
A few years ago, we embarked on a customer experience transformation that put our customers at the heart of everything we do, while at the same time improving the efficiency of our training centers, allowing us to train more professionals with the same or better service.
Sara:00:00:20
Let’s explore how one company’s digital transformation not only improved their customer experience, but brought home the gold, on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.
Announcer:00:00:37
The CX Leader Podcast is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.
Sara:00:00:49
Hi everyone! I’m Sara Walker, host of this episode of The CX Leader Podcast, and thank you for listening. It’s a great time to be a CX leader, and on this show we explore topics and themes to help leaders like you develop great programs and deliver amazing experiences for your customers. Change is hard, and our avid listeners will know that that’s not the first time we’ve said those words on this podcast. When it involves breaking through entrenched practices within a company, it can be especially difficult, but not impossible. With a little buy in, some quick wins to demonstrate the possibilities and some awareness to the importance of customer centricity, you can create a culture that views CX as a game winning strategy. And my guest today has some experience to share on that topic. Talar Ozcanian is the Director of Customer Experience Business Aviation at CAE, an aviation simulation and technology company and winners of the Digital Transformation category at the 2024 USCX Awards. Talar, welcome to The CX Leader Podcast.
Talar:00:01:49
Hi, Sara. Thank you for having me.
Sara:00:01:51
Yeah, we’re I’m so excited for today’s conversation. I think business transformation and particularly digital transformation is a topic that will resonate with a lot of the CX leaders listening today, but maybe to get our conversation started, it would be helpful if you could provide a little bit of context to the business aviation industry, specifically CAE, and kind of what challenges you have within the company and your industry specifically to just give us the proper context and background for the rest of the discussion.
Talar:00:02:22
Absolutely. So she is the world’s largest provider of civil aviation training services. No matter where you fly, chances are that your pilot and copilot were trained in one of our training centers around the world, or in a CAE simulator designed and built in Montreal. In terms of customer experience, we’re always looking to elevate the customer experience by offering customers personalized, seamless, and efficient service when they train at CAE. Business aviation is the use of any general aviation aircraft for a business purpose or in other words, flights that are not conducted by the military or the scheduled airlines. Business aviation is a part of a general aviation that focuses on the business use of airplanes and helicopters. Now, it’s also important to talk about the community, the business aviation community. It consists of different companies of all sizes that rely on many different types of aircrafts. You have single pilot airplanes to turbine aircraft that fly internationally to helicopters that serve a rush hour traffic. Corporate pilots steer private aircraft for business executives, or in some instances, there are medical evacuation operators to reach remote communities, such as in some parts of Canada. These types of business aviation pilots handle every aspect of the flight, from preflight checks to adjusting swiftly to any changes in weather or plans during the trip. Their jobs have high expectations, and it’s only natural that their expectations as customers coming from pilots for pilot training in return also have high expectations.
Sara:00:04:00
Yeah. You know, just to hear you talk about the intricacies of an industry that I think probably the average consumer doesn’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about. But certainly any time we’re sitting in an airplane or helicopter, for that matter, you’re you’re hoping that your pilots and staff and crew are well trained. So certainly it’s an integral life saving mission that you all do when it comes to training these pilots to to be successful and safe operators. But, you know, you mentioned that it’s likely if we’re flying that, you know, one of the pilots has gone through potentially a training course with you all as the providers. So when thinking about the customer experience, how did you come to realize that it was time for a bit of an overhaul or a transformation was really necessary?
Talar:00:04:51
That’s a really great question because I think for most most of us, A pandemic was a key driver in making us rethink our way of serving our customers as an essential business. We had to rethink our processes and the overall customer experience. Therefore, a few years ago, we embarked on a customer experience transformation that put our customers at the heart of everything we do, while at the same time improving the efficiency of our training centers, allowing us to train more professionals with the same or better service. And you’re probably going to ask how. It’s really by using technology to simplify processes for making reservations, checking in into our training centers, and accessing records after training. So the pandemic was the perfect tipping point for us to rethink our CX strategy. And I think CX industry as a whole has grown exponentially in the last few years. But the biggest opportunity was to begin a 3 to 4 years ago. This is when this business aviation CX team was created…
Sara:00:05:58
Okay.
Talar:00:05:58
…at CAE, and we are happy to be integrated within the business because we’ve established a routine voice, a customer review within the organization processes in place. And this is, I think, which was the most important piece of our success.
Sara:00:06:14
Did that involve, um, working with other leaders throughout the organization when it came to, you know, developing the survey questions, the approach for how you were going to gather this feedback or maybe help our listeners understand, you know, when your team was introduced to the organization, how you became integrated with the various business leaders, and I’m sure owners of some of the feedback that does come through from your customers.
Talar:00:06:41
Absolutely. So one of the most important things to to assess and to define is really your CX strategy. So your CX strategy, it provides you with the game plan to bring tangible value. A well crafted CX strategy is going to allow you to unlock the potential of your business. It helps you build competency and a tactical roadmap across the CX disciplines. So as a first step, we worked on our CX mission statement through the partnership of the business aviation leaders we defined what our CX mission statement is. In fact, this was a project that we kicked off with the help of our CX champions globally. And then we realized we finalized it with the business aviation leaders. And this CX mission statement allowed us to align together within the business. So after a few sessions of alignment with the different leaders within the organization, we as a CX team jumped on the opportunity to bring in some edits to our survey. Once we realized that the data we were collecting wasn’t aligned with our focus areas, it wasn’t helping us drive the right discussions. Our approach has always been to listen to the voice of customer and to close the loop. But the golden rule when you’re asking for feedback, it’s because you will act on it.
Sara:00:07:59
Sure.
Talar:00:07:59
So surveys are meant to drive enhancements and change, and this is when we realize that there was a bit of a disconnect. So when we took a step back and assessed our voice of customer program and the surveys, the feedback that we’re collecting and saw how it aligns with our business value prop and our strategy, uh, we realized that there’s a couple of opportunities.
Sara:00:08:22
Yeah.
Talar:00:08:22
And then that’s when we were able to bring in, um, a few survey question edits. So with those edits that we made, we are now able to get tangible, precise feedback to empower those different departments to bring enhancements to the overall customer journey.
Sara:00:08:39
Yeah. And I think that was really interesting just how you shared that there was alignment cross-functionally on the mission statement. And I think that probably a lot of our CX leaders who are listening to today’s podcast could resonate with that tip, knowing that when you’re tasked with producing the entire survey and you have multiple functions within the business that are interested in certain pieces of information, that, to your secondary point are going to help them act to improve the experience. I feel like it’s probably really helpful to be able to point back to a mission statement. And so when certain requests are made or potentially challenges are brought forth with what you’re asserting as the the CX leaders within the team, you can always point back to this is what we’re trying to drive forward and this is or isn’t going to serve us in that goal. So…
Talar:00:09:29
Exactly. And? And it’s our North star…
Sara:00:09:32
Right,
Talar:00:09:32
…basically our…
Sara:00:09:33
Right.
Talar:00:09:33
…internal North star. Yeah.
Sara:00:09:34
So you talked about some of the improvements that were made to the design of the survey, and specifically how that was able to tie back to, um, to actions. Were there any other steps? I imagine there were beyond the defining the mission statement, beyond making some of those improvements to the survey questions that helped to embed this idea of customer centricity within the broader culture at CAE, or perhaps the the minds of the business leaders who are going to be receiving this feedback and results.
Talar:00:10:09
You know, Sara, this is one of my favorite topics. You know, customer centricity. It’s like a movement. Um, first, I cannot say it enough, but we have leadership buy in. Okay. Uh, CAE’s Division president for business Aviation, for example, is is a big sponsor and a champion when it comes to CX. He’s very involved in CX, and he encourages, recognizes our efforts and challenges us in a way to keep us on our toes. So in business aviation, uh, in our CX team, we have someone who helps with the internal communications. Uh, she helps support the employee experience initiatives. And we have internal weekly newsletters called The Post, and we intentionally sprinkle some CX topics related to customer centricity whenever we can.
Sara:00:10:57
Yeah.
Talar:00:10:57
So from sharing NPS results to success stories, short CX trainings, and also sharing some customer centric interview questions for open jobs. So it’s on a weekly basis. And this is a really great way of sharing, uh, some, CX uh, tidbits of the month as well within the organization. And last year we celebrated CX Day for the very first time. Uh, and in celebration of that day, we launched two CX awards internally. One…
Sara:00:11:28
Oh cool.
Talar:00:11:29
…of them is dedicated… Yeah. It was it was really very, very well received. So one of them is dedicated to training centers worldwide. It’s a trophy for achieving a quarterly best in class NPS. And this trophy gets circulated worldwide. So we have some training centers in Dubai and even in Las Vegas. So if that training center wins, will that that trophy, gets shipped to Dubai, and then they get to take a picture with it. And then if, let’s say even Las Vegas team wins, then it would go to the Las Vegas as well. Um, it it helps connect the centers regardless of its distance. And we’re all working together in achieving our CX vision because CX is truly a team sport. Um, we have so many different examples, Sara. There’s also the we launched a regional annual CX business aviation employee awards. So any employee can nominate a colleague who has been going above and beyond for our customers throughout the year. So this is also another awards that we have celebrated, uh, last year. And we’re going to bring it back, of course, for this year’s CX day.
Sara:00:12:34
Yeah. Very cool. I feel like you gave just a couple very tangible examples for how you keep, you know, the efforts that you’re trying to drive as a CX team, top of mind within the organization. I think that a lot of times because you are a customer experience function within a business, and maybe some of our listeners can resonate with this. A lot of your planning and care and execution is very heavily focused on the customers. But if you don’t have your internal audiences appropriately in the loop with what listening is going on, with what the reports and the scores mean with how we’re acting on the data, um, you know, driving any sort of cultural change with a customer centricity in mind is not going to go very far. So it sounds like at CAE, you all were doing quite a few different things and taking a couple of different approaches to really ingraining that into the broader culture. You know, you mentioned the, the regular communications, and then a couple of these awards were those things that existed prior to this CX team, or were those net new initiatives that you all introduced?
Talar:00:13:45
No. Yeah. These these are, these are really new initiatives that we put together as part of, um, fostering a customer centric culture. There are a couple of CX trainings also in place. Um, but these initiatives were really we brainstormed it together within the CX team to see how we can connect the global network that we have,
Sara:00:14:05
Yeah.
Talar:00:14:05
…because we are a global company, and how to foster a CX culture.
Sara:00:14:20
I do want to circle back and make sure we dig into kind of the digital component of this transformation. You know we did talk about the pandemic being a bit of a catalyst for forming a team um at CAE and some of the good change management and cultural shift work that, that you all did as part of this transformation effort, but maybe help our listeners understand what was the impetus for, you know, a need to have a digital Transformation and some of the steps specifically involved with kind of that channel as it relates to your program and your customer subset.
Talar:00:14:55
Sure. That’s a great question. So just to give a bit of, I guess, history and context before we got to the, uh, working together, um, CAE crew training applications. So we have an application where our pilots, uh, use to check their schedule to do their, um, a pre check in and, uh, right now to, to also look into their course material. So we have this application and it started in 2018. But the goal back then was to basically digitize paper processes and targeting um client pain points that were there at the time. So we needed not only to stay current with the digital age, but also to invite a way to answer all the needs of our clients and customers. Once CAE’s digital teams launched a minimum viable product in 2019, clients were introduced to an improved customer journey, and by mid-2020, with the pandemic in full swing, our clients not only demanded a more robust solution, but they needed it. Therefore, CAE’s digital team’s strategy was focused on rapid adoption of the application and change management of modifying processes. And in 2022, our strategy shifted to focus on quality and responding to the voice of customers by decommissioning solutions that impacted our CX results negatively and their experience.
Talar:00:16:20
And this resulted for the digital team and the CX team to to bring down the silos and we started working together. So when the bad customer experience team was created in 2021, this was the perfect opportunity to begin implementing an important and needed CX strategy that would carry the customer experience forward. The CX team pushed for implementation of a client focused closed loop strategy and with the digital product managers and customer success managers. Um. Uh, we ended up taking these meetings. We ended up hosting these meetings and giving the direction to basically review the customer feedback, look at what the trends are showing, what are we seeing. And then from there we had unstructured feedback, structured feedback. And then we started making some enhancements. So in July 2021, 24/7 customer care was established with the customer satisfaction metrics of the CSAT application. They were also founded. So we wanted to grow the usage of the new app, but also making continuously making improvements. So it’s by working together continuously that helped um, bring in those changes.
Sara:00:17:33
Yeah. What’s the digital team, uh, well versed in receiving what we would maybe consider as experiential feedback? Or were they purely driven by, um, you know, metrics like adoption rate, uh, you know, time spent and app, I don’t know any of the other kind of behavioral indicators of, of digital usage. I’m just curious, like with the introduction of the CX team, was that a new way of thinking for the digital product owners, and was it a natural evolution, or were there some maybe initial challenges that you had to overcome together, kind of for the benefit of the customer?
Talar:00:18:14
We really had strong teams in place, but we were in it together. We were trying to figure out together on how to, um, make these, um, to decide the meeting cadence. Are we going to have them every two weeks? Every month? The CX team had the surveys and the bats, uh, CX surveys, for example. And it was collecting a really high response rate. Therefore, that customer feedback that we were receiving was very critical to how they were also going to continue working onto their strategic roadmap and making some quick fixes, or maybe just putting them into the wish list, for example. I think we were all working together towards the same mission collectively. Therefore it made it very enjoyable and they were definitely open to receiving feedback because not only did we rely on that feedback we were collecting in our surveys, but it was also thanks to many of the sessions they had with different customers as well, and within the training center’s customer services. Operationally, if they were hearing any feedback or if anything was going wrong. So it was really a collective approach and we made sure that we were not working in silos. And I think that’s really the secret to our success, the fact that we work together towards our mission.
Sara:00:19:31
Right? Yeah. And that goes back to what we talked about at the opening of the episode when you said that that’s, you know, it started really with executive support and buy in and all being aligned to a North Star goal, which, you know, again, is very helpful in any sort of a transformation process. And clearly CAE has had great success in following that, that guiding principle. You know, I always am struck by particularly anytime we’re talking about transformation, there is a, um, kind of innate understanding that something has was necessary and was completed and is now done. And so I’m curious, you know, as far as the transformation has that, um, you know, fully taken place in your, in your point of view? And if yes, do you have kind of what’s next in maturing your CX capabilities and kind of further enhancing the customer experience that you all provide? I think every listener can probably attest to customer experiences never done. But in terms of thinking about this transformation effort, where are you at in that journey? And what’s next for CAE and the CX team that you guys have there?
Talar:00:20:46
Well, the timing of your question can’t be any better because we have two journeys. We have our customer journey and we also have our client journey. So we have, um, the the pilots who come to our training centers to train. But there’s also those, uh, decision makers that basically decide where the pilot is going to go train. And that’s another journey. And we weren’t surveying that side of the customer journey, that side of the, uh, the touch points at different touch points. I’m excited to share that we are finally going to begin, uh, collecting feedback from our, um, decision makers. Therefore, pilots come to the training center to train. But there’s also, uh, those we call decision makers, and they are the ones who decide where the pilots will go train. Therefore, we are finally going to begin serving those decision makers, and they have a separate customer journey. And then this is going to bring in some new feedback, some new data points. We’re going to look into the trends as well. And again it goes back to that golden rule, right. That you only ask questions that you’re going to act on it. So with these insights we’re going to see how we can drive improvements and enhancements within that journey.
Sara:00:22:03
Yeah. And it’s I feel, you know, I would imagine that you’re going to collect insights that are going to be applicable for both your end customer, the pilots that you’re serving, as well as the clients and the decision makers. And I’m sure you’ll be able to start drawing some conclusions and considerations between the two groups that that B2B2C type of dynamic, I think is always a really interesting one and a super complex one, which is probably why, you know, as a CX professional, it’s it’s something that’s kind of fun, a fun challenge to go out and tackle. So that’s a very exciting kind of evolution of of where you’re going with your listening program. Absolutely. Did you come to the decision to add this voice of the client program, based on any of the listening that you received through your end customer or pilot feedback, or maybe how did the business determine that now is the right time to start listening to this subset?
Talar:00:22:59
This. This is a great question. So, um, we work a lot with the other leaders within the business aviation team, and, uh, we didn’t start with the customer. We basically started with the business. And when we were collecting some insights, you know, when we just would be, um, discussing with some of our leaders and engaging with our stakeholders to basically work on their buy in and also build on that customer centricity. We realized that there was an opportunity. There was a big opportunity to start collecting that feedback that they are receiving, that we’re not collecting, let’s say within our surveys and within our CX program, or closing the loop with them necessarily. So within the Business Aviation leadership team, we are committed to continuous improvement, and with that, listening and evolving to ensure that our customers not only feel valued, but also prepared and confident when they have completed their training. Therefore, by connecting the dots with both of their journeys, it really is going to bring in those insights that we need. Um, and also it’s to align the CX vision with our business aviation core proposition and strategy.
Sara:00:24:11
Yeah, which is really super core to any sort of customer listening program that any organization has. Right? It’s it’s not it’s one thing to get an NPS score. It’s one thing to be… and then it’s another thing to be able to apply your customer KPIs to your broader business goals and help articulate the value of being a customer centric organization. So that’s definitely an exciting kind of what’s next at CAE. And some additional fun challenges that I’m sure you all will enjoy tackling, and it sounds like you have the right foundation to be able to do so successfully. So it’s exciting. So we’ve come to the point in the show where we always ask our guests for kind of their best take home value. What is that one tip or trick that a CX leader can use right away and implement within their own customer experience programs that their organization?
Talar:00:25:02
This is another great question. If I could give one tip or trick for a CX leader that could use right away, it’s try to as early as possible, think about how CX drives specific business outcomes. And as a CX leader, you will bring tremendous expertise to the conversation and different perspectives. So you should have confidence in your views and expertise. Don’t be shy in collaborating with the diverse teams to achieve better business results. The environment of trust that you create with your stakeholders are going to help you get that buy in, and your efforts will always fall short if you don’t have that. So it’s natural that everyone will put customers at the heart of their products and services and processes. However, you have to guide them and help them understand why it’s important and then work with them to make it happen.
Sara:00:25:59
A great wrap up and a good reflection. I think of our broader discussion today. Talar Ozcanian is the director of Customer Experience Business Aviation at CAE. Talar, thank you again for being on The CX Leader Podcast. If any of our listeners want to reach out and maybe follow up and ask questions specifically about what you’ve had success in doing at CAE, or just other general, um, discussion points from today’s conversation, is there a way they could get in touch with you?
Talar:00:26:26
Of course, I mean, I’m always open on LinkedIn, that’s for sure. I’m always open to connecting with the different CX leaders.
Sara:00:26:34
Amazing. And if you want to discuss this topic with one of our experts here at Walker, or if you have a great idea for a topic on a future episode, email us at podcast@walkerinfo.com. We would love to hear from you! Be sure to rate The CX Leader Podcast through your podcast service and leave us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our listener. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com. From there, you can follow the show and find all our previous episodes and a link to our blog, which we update regularly. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We’re an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it’s a great time to be a CX leader. We’ll see you next time.
Tags: digital CX transformation Sara Walker CAE awards Talar Ozcanain