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Steve:
I think we can all agree that no two customers are alike, and any business will have different groups of customers with different needs. So how does that affect your CX strategy?

Leigh:
I know all of our guests want this great experience when they walk in the doors, and we know that that's what they're looking for and we really strive to match that expectation. However, truthfully, what we know is that our guests really spend different price points for their entertainment.

Steve:
Prioritizing your CX efforts based on customer segments, on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast and thank you for listening. As we say in every episode, it's never been a better time to be a CX leader and we explore the topics and themes to help leaders like you deliver amazing experiences for your customers. It's no secret that most companies have different groups of customers with differing needs, and we as CX leaders naturally need to be able to adapt our programs to account for those differences. Depending on your company, differences between your customer segments might be small, but for businesses where each segments needs are vastly different, more complex experienced strategies might be necessary. So how does a CX pro design and execute for different customer segments? Well, I'm really happy and proud to have our guest on this week who is very qualified to discuss this topic. Leigh Redington is the general manager at Potawatomi Carter Casino Hotel in Wabeno, Wisconsin. Leigh, thank you for being a guest and welcome to The CX Leader Podcast.

Leigh:
Thank you. I'm very excited to be here.

Steve:
Well, we're excited to have you here, and I think this is just such a great episode, and I can't wait to get into the topic because obviously the hospitality industry has always been one of the leaders in segmenting their customers and using the analytics to drive great experiences. But before we do that, I always kind of ask for some context. I just want you to be able to share with our listeners a little bit more specifically about your background and how you became general manager and then a little more about the Potawatomi Carter Casino.

Leigh:
Yeah, absolutely. So thank you for that question. I have a background actually in Human Resources, a bachelor's with that emphasis in human resources, but also in organizational development. And I was able to really take my education to the next level with my master's in business administration, which really gave me the opportunity to get into organizations and really fundamentally look at what worked and didn't work. And all the organizations I worked in, I'm really focused on how we interact with our guests as well. So that has given me a really good opportunity to understand from both the employee perspective how we need to train and really get them into the mental thought process as to what it is that we do as an organization and how we treat our customers. And then even in the jobs that I've had, I have customers too, right. Our employees might be our customers. But then I'm also working with the guests that we have on our properties. So it's been a really great experience for me to take both of those perspectives and put them together to really create actionable results.

Steve:
And just for our listeners information now, you are recently promoted to be the general manager of the Carter Casino, but prior to that you were the CX leader at Casino that's in Milwaukee, right?

Leigh:
Right. So my title was actually Director of Learning and Workforce Development, and that's where CX lived. And we really focused on ensuring that we were working with both our marketing and database teams to ensure that we were training correctly, looking for the right information so that we really are using data in the right way in our organization to push for those CX efforts that we have.

Steve:
Yeah, well, I think you're an inspiration to all of our listeners for making the leap from CX right to the, you know, the general manager role, which I think is a great testament to the maturity of our profession today, that folks with this kind of background and pedigree are looked at for the C-suite. So congratulations to you. Now let's talk a little bit about the Potawatomi Hotel and Casino. As I told you, I'm a fan of the casino industry. I not only do I enjoy going to casinos and participating, but it's a great business model specifically for the CX profession. So just tell us a little bit more about your organization and just the scope and scale of your operation there.

Leigh:
Sure. So Potawatomi Hotel and Casinos is really has two different locations. The location in the Milwaukee area is absolutely that that metro area. It is the hub of entertainment here in Milwaukee where we can offer both the gaming operations side of things. We have food and beverage offerings and then we have the entertainment spaces as well. Yes. And then in Wabeno, we have Potawatomi Carter Casino and Hotel, and that's really more of that resort destination type of casino and hotel experience. And up there we're really working to expand the offerings that we have as well and really just elevate what our guests are looking for and really anticipate what those next needs and desires that they have so that we can go ahead and provide that for them. The two properties are are vastly different, right? Different locations, different type of markets that we're in. And just that rural versus the metropolitan area, we have to do things a little bit differently in each of those locations as it pertains to our customers.

Steve:
Yeah. So in Milwaukee, the people are coming there for conventions or sporting events or something like that. What are the what are the attractions in Wabeno? Is it just both, all season sports.

Leigh:
Baseball season, Sports. Outdoor, Yeah. Northwoods of Wisconsin, You have everything from, you know, your fishing and your your boating activities in the summer on the lakes. Then you have the beautiful trails for hiking. But we also have this whole UTV and ATV excursion and activity that happens up there and there's miles upon miles of paved trails for them too. And then as soon as the snow starts, we have our snowmobiling trails. So right behind the casino. You know, we actually have all those trails so somebody could jump on a snowmobile and be on a trail and happen the casino for a quick moment and be right back on that trail. So we absolutely have fantastic offerings within the Northwoods for people that kind of want to get out of the concrete jungle for a moment and just go have an experience in nature, if you will. And we still bring that entertainment value to them all the way up there.

Steve:
Yeah, well, again, I hope a lot of our listeners can relate because I can. I've never been to Wabeno, but like in Las Vegas, for example, you can go out ATV and or you can go to, you know, the Hoover Dam or you can go drive go karts or, you know, there's all sorts of and then, you know, the entertainment, the Cirque du Soleil and the the music, live music and stuff. So. All right. We got a we got a visual on your operation. Now let's let's talk about CX.

Leigh:
All right.

Steve:
So, again, I'm fascinated because I think I think and I should be able to reference it, but I think one of the earliest papers on what we today would call using X and O data was from Harris that they were some of the pioneers in using kind of customer data at casinos. But what kind of drove your decision to start segmenting your customers based on their experiences?

Leigh:
Well, I know all of our guests in our we call them guests here. That's our term for them and our guests. We know that they want this great experience when they walk in the doors, and we know that that's what they're looking for. And we really strive to match that expectation. However, truthfully, what we know is that our guests really spend different price points, right, for their entertainment. So we're really seeing a different level of discretionary income from our guests, and we have an opportunity to really capitalize on that. So it differs from other business models where we have that opportunity to offer our services to our guests that do spend vastly different price points when they're here on property for that entertainment value. And so the challenge was how do we treat our VIPs differently? How do we ensure that we can help bring greater loyalty from them and so that they understand that they matter to us as well as increase the frequency of trips? Right. How do we get them back on property and keep providing that experience to them? So these were some of the things that we really looked at. And again, that was the challenge and it was the what's in it for me type of effect for those folks that really do spend a lot of money on our property. So with the competition kind of continuing to close in on us and now we know they can use those dollars in other places, right? We if you're looking at the city of Milwaukee, there's all kinds of opportunities to take those extra dollars that you have and spend them somewhere else. So what can we do and how do we really drive the difference with those players that we know make an impact and have an impact on our bottom line? So really, we looked at that opportunity to segment and really look at the data and then determine what it is that we're going to do differently to ensure that they know that we need to provide them with the greatest level of service.

Steve:
So it sounds like you have segmented based on spend. So how do you kind of approach each segment or what are the segments that you've really tried to focus on?

Leigh:
Yeah, so we have data, data, data, right, on all of our guests. And it really allows us to dig into those different segments and those different values. And one of those things that we do look at is that daily theoretical play right in their location. So how close are they to the casino and what do we need to do in terms of promotional reinvestment? How do we increase that reinvestment to those players that we know will bring in that additional dollar for us? So through the data, we can really look at the different pieces and decipher this is where we need to push on that because this is going to help make that impact on the bottom line for us. If we can dial that in just right, we have an opportunity to increase those promotions and really target and then validate that our marketing efforts are going well from that perspective as well. So we really allow data to help drive the decisions that we make in terms of the promotional mix from a marketing perspective, but then also how we need to stand back and say, what is my role as a casino host or as someone that really caters to these VIPs? What do I need to do differently based on that data that I have and how I know what's going to bring a return trip?

Steve:
So you've you've actually taken this all the way to the folks that are out in the hotel and casino to make sure they know who the VIPs are, right?

Leigh:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that our intent is to ensure that the moment we know somebody is here that really is a high roller and they they do spend a lot of money with us, we want to make sure that we are connecting with them. We have a high touch point with them right away and that we not only anticipate what they're looking for when they're on property, but we can elevate that experience as well. So we want to ensure that they know we are giving them that white glove type of approach to things, and we're going to ensure that they are getting exactly what they need from our property when they are here.

Steve:
Yeah, so just give me a kind of a for instance, let's say I'm a high roller and I roll into Wabeno for a weekend and I'm going to go to the show and eat and go out on the snowmobiles. And how am I going to get treated when I when I show up?

Leigh:
Well, our casino hosts are very familiar with our guests as well. So as soon as they know someone's coming onto the property, that they have a really good relationship, It's it's that relationship building right at the moment they walk onto the property. So the casino host will have that opportunity to go and find them and welcome them. And hey, what are you looking to do while you're here? Because in the Wabeno area too, that's more of that resort style feel. So we know they're going to be there maybe for a couple of days. In Milwaukee it's a different experience for our guests because they may just be coming for a few hours to play and then they go back home or to work or wherever they're going. So it's it's different how we need to approach those customers as well and those guests, because it is a different experience for them. So up north, you know, as soon as we know that they're here, it's how can I help you have a better experience here on property? What else can I help you to do? And then we work with our casino hosts to really line up those activities and those experiences so that our guests feel like, you know what, I'm taking care of everything that I'm here to do, I'm going to get to do. And we're really that's involving for us to it's something that up north we're really starting to look at how do we bring that experience to the next level for them. And so that's really one of the challenges that I have over this next year is really making sure that we can marry that CX strategy to how we train our employees and then what we offer in terms of our marketing and promotional opportunities as well.

Steve:
Yeah, and thank you for highlighting the fact that use guest experience. I know that's common in hospitality, so I'll try to improve my vocabulary for the No, I think it's the right thing thing to do. It's generic, it's customers. But we have a lot of clients that well, even us, we call it client experience at our company. So I'm interested though, like you mentioned that the repeat customer, do you have analytics to suggest that some of your good customers are sources of referrals or that they bring other people that maybe hadn't had that experience?

Leigh:
Absolutely. Absolutely. One of the things that I think we've noticed is that as other players that we have start to become aware of some of the experiences that they can get at those higher levels of play, too, it creates wonder and excitement and kind of that desire to how do I get there? How do I get what that person has? And what we find, too, is that a lot of our VIPs love to share that information with other guests, too. You know, Oh, Potawatomi did this for me. I got to go to the Bucks game. I got to go sit in the Brewer suite. So really that buzz of excitement that we've created for some of our other VIPs, I mean, that's just exciting stuff for them to share as well. So it just kind of creates this buzz and it does bring us more referrals. And then your next guest that's kind of watching from the sidelines go, how do I get there? I want that experience, too. And that just creates that excitement for for them and for us, because that gives us an opportunity to wow them, too.

Steve:
Yeah. And it's kind of a fine line, too, because some of these folks don't want like to have too much attention on them. Right?

Leigh:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I would say in this particular industry, you absolutely have folks that want to have some level of anonymity. Right? They don't really want folks to cater to them to that level. And and it's interesting for us because from a training perspective, we often try and tell our staff and our workforce build that relationship with your guests. One of the simplest ways is to use their name, right? So if you have a player's club card or you see a credit card or a hotel reservation and that guest is with you on the phone or in front of you use their name, that's going to build that relationship with that guests. But there are those guests that say, I don't want you to use my name. I don't I want to maintain that kind of level of anonymity. And I don't want everyone to know that I'm here. And of course, as we see in Vegas or any other market that has these gaming operations, we do have some celebrities that walk in the door from time to time as well. And so. They're not looking to really have all that attention paid to them as well.

Steve:
Yeah, it is. It's a fine line. And again, you have to treat them the way they want to be treated. And it sounds like you have a really sophisticated approach to that, which is exactly what we'd advocate for here on The CX Leader Podcast, is personalization is one of the absolute best things you can do as a CX leader is personalize that experience to your to your customers. And and in order to do that properly, you got a segment them in segment them not just on their behavior but their preferences and and the way they they want to be served, too. So…

Leigh:
Absolutely.

Announcer:
Are you looking for a little recognition for your hard work? Well, here's just the opportunity. Applications are now being accepted for the US Customer Experience Awards. Finalists and winners will be named in 18 different CX categories, and you could submit an entry in multiple categories. This could be the chance for your team to finally get the recognition it deserves. To find out more and submit your entry, go to usacxa.com.

Steve:
Hey, my guest on the podcast this week is Leigh Redington, the general manager at the Potawatomi Carter Casino Hotel in Wabeno, Wisconsin. We're having a fascinating discussion about how you apply experience management strategies to the hospitality and casino business. Leigh, we talked a little earlier about retention and referrals, but you guys also do some some outreach in terms of advertising to attract new customers or repeat customers for that. How does the segmentation work in terms of your your ad strategy or even your ad spend?

Leigh:
Yeah. So we have an opportunity to really look at that daily theoretical play, as we call it, and then where we see an increase in that average theoretical play, we know we need to provide the right level of promotional opportunities and mix there, right? So we're really evaluating that as we look to push additional promotions or push additional marketing opportunities to some of our staff. So we do look at it differently. And then in terms of how we advertise, our guests are very aware what the loyalty tiers are, right? So our players club, our rewards club, it's something that we communicate. We share that information as far as even what types of opportunities, experiences they can get based on their level of play. So it is something that is very known by our guests. They want to know how do they get into that next level and how many more points do I need to accumulate as far as reward play? So it does help us to really be able to show that differentiation between the different levels of play, again, to kind of increase their excitement level. And it's that how do I get there? So I'm here. How do I get there? Well, let me show you how you get there. And we very clearly communicate how you start to build on that reward play and what your base points are and what's going to take you to that next level.

Steve:
Yeah, there's actually a there's a reason why they call it game theory out there for a lot of the social media apps and and all those things, there's a very much of a human psychology…

Leigh:
Absolutely.

Steve:
…triggered there it isn't it?

Leigh:
Absolutely.

Steve:
Yeah. Association I guess. What are some of the challenges you've had with your segmentation strategy?

Leigh:
So I can I can share that our our challenge right now is looking at the two properties because they are different and they're different primarily because of that location in the markets that they cater to. So one of those challenges when we're looking at segmenting customers is when we're looking at the data, are we looking at the right data? Can we use the same data in Wabeno we can use in Milwaukee? And the answer is really we can't. So it's been a challenge for us to really understand what are the metrics that we need to to review and to analyze as part of the segmentation. Because when you are here in the Milwaukee area, a trip is a lot easier than if you're up north in the north woods. It might be a 30 mile commute to get to the casino up there versus here where it's greater accessibility, right? So when we talk about that, the actual metrics, they need to be to be different. But that makes it challenging for us because when you're trying to build an align your program so that you can train consistently and you can do your marketing and your promotional promotional opportunities consistently, you find out you really you can't. And you do have to take that moment and look at each of those properties a little bit differently because of location and because of what that market is and because really what the experience is that those guests in those two locations are also looking for. So that's been the biggest challenge is just trying to figure out can we be consistent? And right now the answer is no. And that's okay. It's it's okay. It's not bad to have different metrics right now. We'll get there where we can really be more consistent. But the challenge really just is we need to approach these two different properties a little bit differently right now.

Steve:
You've highlighted another really key part of customer experience in that you have a distributed business model, you have the same business in two different locations that are different and some things about it are the same. I mean, you want the same outcomes eventually, but the way you're going to get there is different. And in some ways you got like two laboratories that you can experiment with, right?

Leigh:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve:
Yeah. So yeah, now I get it. Like the customers are different because Wabeno, they're, they're going there for the weekend in Milwaukee they might just be dropping by. What about the employee experience? I imagine it's different at both places, right?

Leigh:
It is. And so this is really where my passion comes out because my background, Right? Yeah, it's. Employee or employee engagement and its organizational development. And I really always come from the philosophy that if you take care of your employees and you make them feel valued, they in turn take care of your guests, right? They will ensure that their guests are also taken care of and feel valued. And it's really that simple. So from from my perspective, you need to ensure that your employees have a say into what's happening as far as the guest service experience. They're the closest to the work. They're the ones that are doing it with those guests every single day. So giving them that opportunity to kind of share this is what I hear and this is what I see that our guests want. Take that information and really give it some weight and understand that your guests are coming to the front line first and foremost. That's their that's their person, right? That's who they interact with the most. Listen to the employees and let them have an opportunity to provide some of the feedback that they get also from the guests.

Steve:
Have you actually taken measurements of employee experience at each location?

Leigh:
So we did in Milwaukee, and we continue to it's something I'd like to do in Carter as well or up in the Wabeno area. It's also part of my background and with organizational development, I was running employee engagement surveys for global organizations, and that really was a spectacular way to measure where your employees are at and then find out what it is they further need to develop themselves, but again, in turn develop the business and really help the business operations function. So that's always something I promote and talk about often is get that employee feedback as well and let them give you some of the information that they've been hearing and they've been collecting from your guests as well.

Steve:
Yeah, in the hospitality business specifically, it's it's pretty hard to separate the the guest experience from the employee experience because the employees are such a critical part of the guest experience. And it's not just, you know, the the dealers and the pit bosses, it's the parking attendants and it's the concierge and it's the people at the front desk. I mean, it's very complex, right?

Leigh:
Very complex. You have touchpoints at every interaction. When somebody drives on to property here or steps their foot onto this property, they meet our staff at every different department right along that journey that they take. So it's important that consistently in our messaging to to our staff and our workforce that they understand what it is that we are aligning to organizationally. What is that priority for our guests and that we ensure they know it and that they can carry it out. So it's a very important thing for us to get right at every step in that journey.

Steve:
And just again, you talked about the differences for the guests in Milwaukee versus Carter. Are there differences in the type of employees you're attracting at each location? Is it a little different labor base?

Leigh:
It's absolutely different labor base. Milwaukee. We're pulling from metropolitan area here, whereas up in Carter, it's a different population. It's a different workforce up there. So it's important to really look at the workforce that you have up there and you want to ensure that you are engaging with the community correctly and then you are continuing to build on retention from those employees as well, because it's a little harder to get the workforce up there than we do in Milwaukee. So just different approaches to how you retain employees and then really how you ensure that you are even recruiting them. Totally different tactics that we have for both properties.

Steve:
Well, hey, this has been fascinating. It's such a fascinating business, and I think most of our listeners can relate to the business. And you've done a great job of sort of explaining all that, and I'm so encouraged to see someone with the CX pedigree go to general manager. So this is really exciting and I can't wait to see the success, but we have reached that part of the podcast, Leigh, where I ask every guest for their take home value and it's part of the application we try to provide here on The CX Leader. We try to leave our listeners with the one thing they ought to be doing right away to improve their own program. So Leigh Redington, what is your take home value for our listeners this week on The CX Leader Podcast?

Leigh:
So I have to, I hope…

Steve:
Oh, extra credit, extra.

Leigh:
I was always Lisa Simpson in school too. I was always the over here. So here we go. So take home tip number one to me is ensure that your employees have the why behind what they're doing. If you can go back to whether that's your human resources team or your training teams. Or whoever is really ensuring that that customer service and that customer experience is being taught and trained, ensure that they're explaining the why behind that, because it's so important to our workforce. So to understand, here's the what. And here's why we do it. It aligns to the organizational priorities that we have. So if you can ensure that they know that, it will help them into delivering that guest experience as well. So that rolls right into my tip number two, which is Walk the Talk. If you expect your staff to behave and demonstrate excellent guests and customer experiences, then as a leader in that organization, you've got to do the same thing. And so that could be with the team members. They can be your guests. So it's how you interact with them. You're setting that tone from the top so that you can show them that I expect and behave in this way. And that's what I expect and behave from you as well. So an example of that is often as I'm walking property, if I know a guest is walking towards a door and that's the same door that I'm going to go through, even if I have to stand there for 45 seconds longer, I will and I'll hold that door for them. So I'm going to anticipate that I know what they're doing, but that also shows to the workforce I'm working with. Hey, I'm going to do the same thing that I expect you to do, which is hold that door for that guest. Right? I am no different than anyone else. So I would say that that second tip is just make sure that you can set the tone from the top and demonstrate what you expect of your staff.

Steve:
No, I mean, that's we talk about that a lot. That's those are great tips. And thank you. Leigh Redington has been our guest on the podcast. And in case anybody might want to continue the conversation, Leigh, I know I found you on LinkedIn. You're on LinkedIn. And then can they find you at the Potawatomi website as well? Or do you want to give us an email for your…

Leigh:
Sure. I will give you my email. It is Leigh, L. E. I. G. H. Period. Redington. R. E. D. I. N. G. T. O. N. at Carter Casino and that's C. A. R. T. E. R. C. A. S. I. N. O. dot com.

Steve:
Appreciate you being a guest. Been a great guest. Thanks, Leigh.

Leigh:
Thanks. It's been wonderful, Steve.

Steve:
Leigh Redington, General manager at the Potawatomi Carter Casino Hotel in Wabeno, Wisconsin. If you're in the area, you should definitely check it out. And we really want to thank her for a great podcast. And if you want to talk about anything else you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your business customer experience, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Remember to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating through your podcast service and give us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible experience for you, our listener. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to subscribe to the show, find all of our previous episodes, podcast series, contact information. You can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at Walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening. And remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. So go out there and explain your why better and walk the talk better at your organization. And we will see you again back here next time.

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