Building CX Expertise

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Steve:
You're a customer experience expert, but most of the people in your company are not. So how do you raise the level of knowledge within your organization?

Drew:
Fundamentally, as practitioners, we need to be experts in the practice, but what we mean here in this context is the rest of the organization someone that might not be connected to our program? How do they become experts in what we're doing? So when they're presented with an opportunity to make a decision that would benefit a customer's experience, they know what to do.

Steve:
Let's look at building expertise in customer experience on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast. And thank you for listening. It's never been a better time to be a CX leader, and we explore the topics and themes to help leaders like you deliver amazing experiences for all your customers. In the grand scheme of things, customer experience is still a newer practice. While it's growing as companies and organizations realize its potential, there are still few options for formal education and training in CX, and that can make things difficult for CX pros trying to engage the entire company in customer experience efforts. So how do you raise the level of expertise across your organization? Well, I'm really excited about this topic and I'm excited about my guest today, who is my colleague and friend here at Walker. Drew Hall is a vice president and a team lead in our advisory and managed services group. And he, along with one of our other colleagues, Elliot Moran, recently published an article and it's on our blog and it covers this subject of expertise building. I think it's a great topic and couldn't be happier that Drew is here to be with us, and Drew is actually a frequent guest on the podcast, so I welcome you back, Drew. Thanks for being on the podcast.

Drew:
Yeah, Steve, Thanks for having me back. Always look forward to these chats and I'm real excited to talk through what we published in the blog and how that applies to all of the listeners in their organizations.

Steve:
I know you're a frequent guest, but just to make sure that our listeners know a little bit more, just give us your brief CV here and why you're competent to speak on this topic.

Drew:
I live and breathe customer, employee, patient experience. I think this practice area, while it's, you know, growing still really in its infancy, what we can do as professionals for our organizations and the way they serve the human beings that we interact with is really something that is near and dear to my heart. And I know everyone listening. It's the same because what's more powerful than a customer that's loyal, that feels appreciated, that wants to tell their friends, Hey, come on, this way, because I've got a great company I interact with and they're going to make you feel great as well. I've been doing this about 15 years, was a practitioner in the field for a while. Really pleased to have the role I do at Walker supporting a broad set of business to business, business to customer, all types of customer types. And I look forward to these podcast sessions because we're trying to find some some commonalities between these groups that we can hopefully provide a few nuggets of wisdom that will hopefully help each of you listening in your organization drive some change and to that earlier point, put smiles on our stakeholders faces and change the world one customer at a time.

Steve:
Yeah, you… Great intro. And you know from the intro that we use to introduce the topic and from some of our discussion offline here, you know, customer experience is really everyone's responsibility in the organization. And in order to really be good at it, you have to get everybody engaged. But as we mentioned, you know, not everybody is as passionate about it as us, and not everybody's had the benefit of some of the experiences we've had. So just to set the table, let's just have you define what you mean by expertise building. And then why is it so important for a CX pro?

Drew:
Yeah, this is really one of those areas where it's hard to get it right. And and I think, you know, I appreciate you asking. Let's define it first because there's there's a couple layers to expertise building. Fundamentally, as practitioners, we need to be experts in the practice how to write great survey questions knowing that they'll deliver KPIs that are meaningful to the business. But what we mean here in this context is the rest of the organization someone that might not be connected to our program? How do they become experts in what we're doing? So when they're presented with an opportunity to make a decision that would benefit a customer's experience, they know what to do, they know how to do it. And it adds value to that experience that they're a part of that they support. So expertise building means culture building, awareness building, capabilities, yes, but really that emotional orientation towards knowing when there's an opportunity and taking action to make change.

Steve:
Drew, you're an easy guy to get enthusiastic around. You just sort of exude that positivity and and the passion that we we have. But not all CX pros are so lucky. You know, lots of times we even get pushback like, you know, I don't have time to take care of these customers. I got too much else on my plate. But what are some of the tricks that… not tricks, but what are some of the techniques that you and Elliot came up with here to try to start to think about how you build this kind of capacity and expertise?

Drew:
Yeah, I appreciate the compliment, Steve. I certainly consider myself enthusiastic. This is just such, such an easy practice to get excited about. Smiles are contagious right at the end of the day. And when you're around folks that are happy, it's it's tough not to be happy. But in the blog, we really lay out an easy starting point, which is to think about your communication strategy. What are the messages we're sharing outside of our inner circle? And and that's easier said than done in a lot of ways, right? It's not just an email. It's not a, you know, a one liner in a quarterly update that the executives might give. It's all of the above. And I think the big takeaway when it comes to thinking about communication is there isn't one way that's going to work. And so it really is a tireless activity and it takes some creativity and you have to iterate. Every organizations find something… we'll find something that works better than something else. But there is no one communication strategy that's going to work, right? Different audiences need different messages, and those different messages need to be tailored in different ways to meet our listeners where they are in the way they like to listen. I could imagine an engineering company that has more patents than every other company on the earth might need a different approach to how we structure a communication as opposed to a creative services firm doing video editing for the new Disney movie coming out. Right. And so my my, the you know, the blog lays out communications as a starting point, but creative communication is really how I would level that comment up.

Steve:
Yeah, I think one of your previous episodes here, you came up with a great line. You said like, you know, pros can't just be change, change acceptance, they have to almost be change seekers, you know, And most people in our organizations resist change. And so change management is kind of a constant in our work environments today. But I've always said this, you know, you cannot overcommunicate when you're in a period of change. There's just, you know, you can't.

Drew:
100%. And I think there's and I'm not a certified change manager. So, so I, you know, we'll we'll take a little bit of license here. But I think change management is not a stepwise process. It's a one step back, two step forward. It's iterative. It's multiple things at the same time.

Steve:
Yeah.

Drew:
And if I had if I had one piece of advice that I find works with clients, and then as a former practitioner, it's when someone gives you an or ignore the or replace it with an and. Okay, try both. Do both. Take risks. It's okay to fail. And if you're going to fail, fail fast. Right? Let's take a Silicon Valley lesson. So not knowing what works is good. We need to be risk loving and we need to know that we might miss communicate here or there. But that's okay. Because any news, you know, any publicity is good publicity when we're talking about our customers and what they care about. So I think we've just to your point, we've got to go embrace the change and move towards it. And communication is the way and it's not just one way, it's also dialog. And so, you know, I would just put into this, you know, you'd ask the question, what are creative or what are some strategies and techniques, the communication strategy, what are the key messages? How are we going to present those training curriculum where it's online, self-paced, or it's live and in person bringing customers in to participate in those trainings, using the data from the program as the training content itself. I used to do a Family Feud style game. We would gamify it right. What are the top five things that respondents are saying about how to improve our logistics? And then you engage folks in those. And when it's fun, folks want more. And I think that's really the do both ignore the ORs find ways to to follow the and and be creative.

Steve:
I love that that's a great you know the gamification that's there's there's so much good research on that now today and you know people actually really do like to learn if you make it engaging when it's boring, it becomes laborous. But I like that. So what are some of the other tools besides communication and gamification? What else? What else did you talk about.

Drew:
Exactly. Reward Reinforcement. So celebrating success. When you have a closed loop program and there's a, you know, not the inner program designers, the architects will call the next ring, the heroes that are out there solving customer issues, responding to feedback either collected through structured approaches coming through the contact center observed, You know, whatever the way is, we're learning when folks are following up and taking those actions, we need to celebrate that success and we need to do it in a way that helps others that aren't on that front line, recognize how easy it is and how rewarding it can be to take those actions. I've seen clients have have annual awards programs where they highlight an entire department that has taken XYZ action to improve something that was heard. You bring that group out. I've seen an awards dinner and in fact, I was honored to be a judge at the CXA awards a few weeks back. And a number of the presentations talked about how reward reinforcement for the teams that are delivering success isn't just great for them, it's great for the overall organization to see who's doing what because people want to participate. People want to celebrate, give kudos. And if you don't know who deserves a kudo, you don't know who to give it to. So there's a real reinforcing action to to reward reinforcement that in addition to communication, in addition to multiple trainings, in addition to gamification, I really think celebration in whatever that means to your organization is a critical technique.

Steve:
You know, you said something a couple of minutes ago I want to go back to and that's dialog two way. And you said, you know, change management is kind of a one step back, two step forward. And I was thinking about, you know, sometimes you have to slow down to speed up. And I think particularly in a knowledge business and most of us now are working in kind of a knowledge intensive environment today, you know, it's really easier to get people to change if they think that they're part of that solution, if they are part of that process. You know, I think about our our own RED process that we use a Walker for strategic planning. It's all designed to kind of give people a common experience and show how they can do that. So how does that play in this kind of this concept of building expertise?

Drew:
You're hitting on a big one, right? People don't support what they don't help create, right? So when you engage anyone in the process of design, it becomes more meaningful. And this is where expertise building has a reciprocal benefit to the program itself if we take half of our time. And so the first half is designing our program. What are the questions, what's the data, what are the dashboards? But then we spend the second half of our time interfacing with the rest of the organization. Yes, that will benefit the individuals that have jobs far removed from our our place that will help them take action where needed. That will help them celebrate folks on those frontlines. But then there's going to be a feedback back into our program where we'll learn about what's happening in those departments, what their real challenges are, and the questions that we're writing will be improved. The feedback we're collecting will be more meaningful to those individuals and organizations in the organization we're actually trying to serve. So if we had to split our time, it might even be more important to spend our time interfacing, building culture, driving expertise, because the expertise we build into our organization will come back to us and make our own programs more meaningful to the rest of the organization, thereby enhancing our own expertise on how to improve the organization.

Steve:
Yeah, one of the things we talk about on this show a lot, and I think you're giving us kind of a new perspective on that is, you know, don't lead with your data all the time. Lead with what the business issues are that your stakeholders are dealing with, and start to demonstrate for them how the customer feedback and the customer expertise can be a part of their solution in a very holistic way. You made a great opening statement, a kind of about the value we create. You know, it's pretty hard to argue with, Hey, we're going to have a great business because we're going to create great value for our customers. I mean, that is that is a noble calling. But the way we get it working in our organizations, it's it takes a little more effort. So any any comments kind of on that concept?

Drew:
Yeah, well, 100%. Value for customers is, is rule number one of business. If a if a person doesn't find value in your product or service, they're going to go somewhere else. But think where you're taking this thread is what about the value we're creating for our employees? What about the employee experience? How does knowing our customers are happy and having a great time reinforce an employees desire to engage the desire to stay with an organization that is providing value? And if that that two way dialog of change and the customer experience team saying maybe we don't have all the answers, what if in our employee experience surveys we asked, how would you improve the customers experience? Right? What if we included data from our program in a pre note and asked them to think about ideas that they might have in a structured and broad way? I've seen a number of organizations embark on a on a program called the Voice of the Customer through the employee, right. VOCE As it's formally known. Yeah. That's not quite a VOE program, right? Well being, safety, those types of questions or a VOC program, how do you like our product and the surrounded experiences? But the VOCE is hey employee that that might be working with a customer, how do you think they're experiencing the organization? And when we start that dialog, at least the organization knows that they're a part of it. Fundamentally, they're helping design that process through the feedback. And ultimately that will lead us in a direction where, you know, more voices, you know, all back, back to our RED process. All of us are smarter than one of us.

Steve:
Yeah. And I'm glad you got the connection back here to the employee part of it because it is critical and most companies today have some combination of product or service or there or kind of a pure service business. And so it's hard to get at the customer experience without at least talking a little bit about the employee experience. And most employees, you know, that's the old saying, they join for the mission and quit for the boss. But they've joined the organization to make a difference, to to have meaningful work and engaging them in how we create a customer experience is a great way to make work more meaningful.

Drew:
And that's the expertise building we ultimately want them to have is what the customer is going through. Understanding that product or service. I would I would even draw a line between a retail or customer facing business where there are people behind a cash register that are having a shared physical experience. That is not just the customer's experience, that is the employee and the customer's combined experience very different than making something on a computer and shipping it out over to a website, right? So listening to employees in that moment builds a whole other level of expertise, right? Maybe asking because this is a this is a wild idea, maybe asking customers about what they think the employees experience is like and how to improve the employees experience would be a next level design that would no doubt help, you know, build build more knowledge over these shared experiences in the aim to to create what what some of us, you know, are noodling on congruency. We want our customers and employees when they're out there in the field to be having a shared similar experience. It can't be beneficial for one and painful for another. Everyone can have a good time and it just takes thinking more thoroughly and engaging your stakeholders in what we're doing in those moments.

Steve:
Yeah, and that's why we're so passionate about this, because we know that the business outcomes will come if we can create great experiences for our employees, particularly those who are serving customers and the customers that rubs off on them. So…

Steve:
Remember the CX Now series we just wrapped up not too long ago here on The CX Leader Podcast? Well, we just published a new e-book highlighting each of the essential themes driving CX. You can download it at walkerinfo.com/cxnow. And don't forget about our blog. That's right. We have a blog and we update it regularly. Check it out at walkerinfo.com/blog. There's a ton of great experience management content available. And the best part, it's free. That's walkerinfo.com/blog.

Steve:
My guest on the podcast this week is my friend and colleague, Drew Hall. He's a vice president and team lead here in advisory and managed services here at Walker. He's an enthusiastic proponent and really an evangelist, I would say, for for our industry and our profession. Go back a minute ago, but you talked about what you can learn from this two way communication, this dialog with the folks that are you're hoping to build their capacity. And obviously it could make our designs better and our, you know, the designing the program. But what other things would a CX pro learn by engaging in this capacity building activity?

Drew:
Yeah, you know, of course I go first to the survey design itself or the listening architecture design or we have a touchpoint and there are drivers and attributes that we're not going to know better than the folks that are managing those experiences. But then you can level up and start to think about journey mapping overall and where these moments that we're learning more deeply about fit into an overall journey that a customer employee is going through. When we lean into the individuals we work with and their work that they're doing, it helps us understand the readiness of our organization and how, when we need to engage around closed loop follow up or macro chain or macro outer loop change, we'll know if we're biting off too much as a program. And when it comes to engaging executives and asking for buy in and investment, we can't oversell what's actually possible. And so think think the last point that that does link this culture building construct to another critical component of program success, which is executive support, knowing more about where the organization is and how willing and ready it is to change will bring confidence to the executive team on where to invest time, where to invest, resources to to, you know, rule number one, a business, leverage scarce resources in the most effective way possible. And we can become a very powerful conduit for business transformation when we truly understand our organization.

Steve:
I'm really glad we went there because you're right that what we really can learn is the DNA of the organization and how we can create ROI for the folks that fund this activity. You know, you and I have both worked with clients that really get this, and it's just such a part of the way they do business. And not surprisingly, they're market leaders. They're, you know, they're, you know, have a really great business because it's all built on this kind of this experience competency. Drew, you've given us a lot of great tips, and I suppose that you are the author of this new blog that we want people to go check out. But there are a myriad of resources for folks who are interested in this topic. So what are just some of the things that you've drawn on or that you think that people should draw on if they're interested in building bigger capacity inside of their organization?

Drew:
Yeah, and I appreciate you referencing the blog and that's where I was going to go. A lot of times as practitioners, we feel the pressure that it's on us to create the next step and to know what to do next. And and I find that a challenge that I know all of us struggle with. And one of the recommendations I would suggest and something that's been very helpful, helpful to me is to look externally, right? If you're listening to this podcast, then you understand the value of of external thinking. But there's a lot out there and I think, you know, or associations like the CXPA, which has been a really great place for my career and hopefully for those of you listening, you found knowledge there. That's a great way to engage the rest of our organization in moving their way up the expertise ladder, right? Here on The CX Leader Podcast, probably for a more refined audience, I wouldn't necessarily send an episode out to someone at the end of the organization that doesn't know about this just yet, but I would put it on the list of things to share. Maybe the blog that we're we're teeing off this podcast off of is a place, but those are two examples of the, the, the last item I'd throw in there as a way to build expertise is to know that it's not just on you, that there are plenty of resources and even roadmaps for how to introduce knowledge in a way and you know, practitioner, you know, practice area knowledge in a way that's digestible and meaningful and moves people up the learning curve at the pace that's right for them.

Steve:
Yeah, you might even want to like use some artificial intelligence there too, like just ChatGPT and say, how do I build capacity in my organization?

Drew:
Steve, don't get me started with the prospect of ChatGPT I would I would say this ask start conversations, but it's going to be general. It's going to be vague. How to contextualize what a very sophisticated web search synthesis and presentation tool. How to apply that to your organization. That's actually the hard part. Um, but yeah, I would call that another primary source to help give you some thoughts, but make sure you apply it because anyone you're trying to train it needs to know specifically what am I supposed to do next? What's in this for me? Sure, I should take a training, but what's what's the training about using your customer feedback data using journey maps, Using the tools in your tool kit to lay those breadcrumbs out is going to be the easiest way to bring folks on the journey that we're on. And if we listen to what they're saying while we're all going in the same direction, we're going to get to a much higher place than if we just go it alone.

Steve:
Yeah, I was only really half joking. I mean, we, you know, you know, 20 years ago we didn't have search engines where we could download, you know, basically the world's knowledge in a nanosecond. But it's still the human part of it. And I think your advice for CXPA in particular or other people that you can network with having a peer network or hanging around with people who you admire and who who have done it before is a great way to build that, build that muscle memory in yourself, and then transfer that to your organization. Hey, Drew Hall, we've reached that point in the podcast where I ask every guest, you know this because you've been through this a couple of times, but we try to leave our listeners with a very practical tip. We call it take home value. But the concept here is that somebody listening to this podcast could actually go back right away and make something significant happen and improve their situation in their organization. So, Drew Hall, what's your take home value for this episode of The CX Leader Podcast?

Drew:
I would say for any practitioner looking to drive an understanding of what we do as CX leaders and then engagement in the program. My advice is to be creative. My advice is to not overthink it and just get started. If you're faced with a decision to try this or that, try both because your teams will tell you what works. And if we take the iterative mindset, we will. Maybe. Maybe we'll have to take a step back. But it will take us two steps forward. And if we're committed, we're going to go farther together than farther alone.

Steve:
Drew Hall is a vice president and team lead in our advisory and managed services group here at Walker. You can reach out to him. I know he's on LinkedIn and dhall@walkerinfo.com. Right?

Drew:
Flood the inbox. Let's do it.

Steve:
Yeah. And he's to this point, if you really do have some interest in this, I know Drew would love to talk to you. He really is a great connector and somebody that creates a lot of positive energy in our profession. So I always enjoy my interactions with him, and I think you will, too. Drew, thanks for being on the podcast and hope you'll come back again.

Drew:
I'm looking forward to the next one. Thanks, Steve.

Steve:
Hey, and if you want to talk about anything you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your business' customer experience, feel free to email us at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Remember to give The CX Leader Podcast rating through your podcast service and give us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our listeners. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to subscribe to the show, find all our previous episodes, podcast series and contact information. You can even drop us a note. Let us know how we're doing there. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. So go out there and build some more capacity in your organization starting right now, and we'll see you again next time.

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