Celebrating CX Day 2020!

Release Date: October 6, 2020 • Episode #136

There’s never been a better time to be a CX professional, and today’s episode explores the best the profession has to offer and why customer experience and experience management is critical to a businesses success. Host Steve Walker welcomes guests Sandy Mathis, Rosa Carbajal, and Johnathan Ruchman to discuss why they believe customer experience is such a great profession and how CX can be one of the best investments for a company.

Transcript

CX Leader Podcast – "Celebrating CX Day 2020!" transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

Download the “CX Leader Podcast – "Celebrating CX Day 2020!" audio file directly. This wav was automatically transcribed by Sonix (https://sonix.ai).

CX Leader Podcast – "Celebrating CX Day 2020!" was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Steve:
Happy CX Day, everybody. As I like to say, it's never been a better time to be a customer experience professional.

Rosa:
I love seeing the satisfaction that comes on people's faces when a customer gets excited, the person that delivered that experience gets excited, and I love that part of it.

Steve:
Let's celebrate CX Day on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at Walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast and thank you for listening to this special CX Day episode. On The CX Leader Podcast we explore topics and themes to help leaders like you leverage all the benefits of your customer experience and help your customers and prospects want to do more business with you. Each year, the Customer Experience Professionals Association, or CXPA, organizes a CX Day on the first Tuesday of October. This special day gives CX practitioners around the world an opportunity to recognize all the great work being done in customer experience. And we thought we'd add to the celebration by inviting a few CX pros out of the show to talk about this great profession of ours. Rosa Carbajal is the senior customer experience business manager for worldwide support services at NetApp. Sandra Mathis is the customer experience strategist and design director for HCL Technologies, and Jonathan Ruchman is the senior director of customer experience for Brookdale Senior Living. Rosa, Sandy, Jonathan, thank you for being on this special episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Rosa:
Excited to be here. Steve, thank you for having me.

Sandy:
Thanks so much, Steve. Excited to be here as well.

Johnathan:
Hi, Steve. Great to be back and thank you very much for this opportunity and happy CX Day.

Steve:
Yeah. Happy CX Day to you, all three of you. And I want to thank you again for taking time to do this and provide this service to our industry. You know, it really is a great time in our profession with so much of the focus of organizations being on providing great experiences to their customers. But I know all three of you have had quite a career and have each had your own journeys, but have found your passion in the CX work. Just to start us off, Rosa, why don't you just share sort of what you think have been some of the most significant things that have happened in CX over the last year?

Rosa:
Oh, there I feel like there's been a lot of things that have been taking place, lots of chatter. I feel like employee experience all of a sudden has gotten this heightened awareness where all of a sudden and especially in service areas. So I work closely and with worldwide services and support, and now there's a keen interest in understanding the satisfaction of our employees. And how that translates over to our customers. And all of sudden people are asking, how do we measure that? What do we do about that? And I think making that connection, you know, I think is as CX professionals, these are little things that we've always known in our hearts. But now to hear other people say it, it's like, oh, you guys are getting it now. And it's it's a great amount of satisfaction in hearing that.

Steve:
How about you, Sandy, with some of the big trends you've seen in the last year?

Sandy:
Right. I think so, I would agree wholeheartedly with what Rosa is saying around employee experience. I really attribute that to we're trying to do better about understanding what it means to bring our employee and bring our whole selves to work. And then how does that translate over to how we're treating our customers? So I think that that's like one big trend. The other is, I think with all the things that are going on right now with, you know, the pandemic, it is become, even bigger, a bigger split or a space between those who are doing CX and doing customer experience really well and those who are like, now I have to do more to catch up. So if I haven't spent a lot of time on understanding what's going on with my customers, I now have to make that bring that front and center, because I have to understand, am I keeping up with my competitors? And if I haven't done a good job with my digital experience, then I need to spend the money and the infrastructure while people can't maybe get to my company or are working differently in order to make sure, again, that they're keeping up, because it starts to become a further gap between, you know, those who are doing it right and those who are not. So those those are the a couple of things that I see as the biggest things that stand out right now.

Steve:
That's a great insight. And I'm going to come back to that here in a minute, because I think that one of the things that if you're looking for positives in the pandemic is that, again, I think these are going to be some of the most fundamental shifts that businesses will ever endure in terms of how they're dealing with their customers employees. So thank you for highlighting that, Sandy. Jonathan, your turn. What's your take on the last year and CX?

Johnathan:
Yeah, well, when you go last, all the good answers are already taken, so.

Steve:
Well, you're just the man to bring that back.

Johnathan:
I guess there would be two things I would say. The first is that customer loyalty was really put to the test. If you think about it, lack of product availability, toilet paper, paper towels, as well as personal financial uncertainty, they've really impacted shopping behavior. And I just read a report by McKinsey that said, 75% percent of U.S. consumers have tried new shopping behaviors since the COVID-19. So that was interesting. You know, think about this another purchase decision also challenged loyalty and its personal safety. So airlines, hotels, they've all responded differently. So while a frequent flier, our guest might be loyal to Brand A, he or she may feel safer with Brand B. So how did safety rank relative to loyalty? And then the last thing that I would say is it's amazing how agile companies were to change the business model overnight, easier for small businesses to do it. But large companies that are slow boats to turn around, they did it and they had no choice but to do it.

Steve:
Yeah, combining your comments there with what's what Sandy was mentioning, you know, if you didn't have a digital strategy before, you had to come up with one pretty quickly. And I think, you know, those organizations that did I happen to live in an area where there's lots of fine dining restaurants and boy, all of them are now offering, you know, pretty slick solutions in terms of ordering online and picking it up.

Johnathan:
And my heart goes out to all those small business owners in this country that they're the heart of our economy. And it's just it's so tough, so, so tough for them right now.

Steve:
Maybe we could talk a little bit more about sort of the importance of digital and how that's impacting. Want to go back to Rosa. You obviously work for a technology company. Again, we're not going to get into the specifics of of your business, but what is kind of the impact and the explosion that's going on digital?

Rosa:
It is. It tell you even more it becomes more and more competitive. And, you know, I hear some genius stories out there among the competitors as they as Sandy mentioned, they're stepping up their CX game and they're going up to the gate and saying, I'm going to do a gap analysis on my competitors customer journey map to see how I can edge them out. Like really smart things are going on in order to try and get that extra edge and step above on your competitors. If you're failing in support, I'm going to knock you out of the park on it. If you're failing in services here, I'm coming after you. And that really seems to be making an impact because then you hear that chatter come along from sales teams. Oh, I'm hearing this on the market. They're doing really good on that. They're doing really good on that. And it transmits so quickly now in this digital space that as soon as they make a move, we're already hearing about it.

Steve:
Sandy, you kind of got us on this topic, but how do you think, particularly like B2B companies are responding relative to digital? I mean, I think we're all pretty comfortable now with the digital on the consumer side, but a lot of our listeners and many of the companies that we work with are B2B. Do you have any kind of tips or ideas around that?

Sandy:
Yeah, I think it's it's interesting because often with B2B, it doesn't matter if you've got two or three competitors. I used to work at Equifax. It's so focused on customer experience and that that space is very, very small. But the reality is the customers are very, very vast in the B2B space. So I think it's it's important to on one hand, so kind of what Rosa was saying a moment ago about I need to do I need to try to catch up or do a little bit better. I think it's a balancing act between I need to either make sure I'm somewhat at parity, but then those things that you're going to knock out the box, it's not about everything. It's kind of picking out your path and saying, what are those couple of things. So if I am an organization and I am selling widgets to and I'll use widgets for like some sort of tool. Right. So I'm selling tools to these is hardwares or different hardware stores, that sort of thing. The reality is I may not be able to I may not be able to offer up all of the kind of wrenches at the full assortment. But it's important to point out what are my kind of couple of items that are my point of difference in terms of the product. And if I can't plan the product, then it needs to be on how can I do a better job at offering up the service aspect? So if it is your time to delivery is this, then you need to make sure that you increase it or streamline it, or is the follow up or the other part that I used to say a lot when in my Equifax days is it can't be about bringing your chains. It can't be about I'm coming to the door with I've got all these necklaces or in this case, wrenches to sell to you. I need to understand a little bit about what is that organizations… what are those kind of their customers? I need to understand about their customers as much as I know about my core customer in order to bring you the right assortment of wrenches. So it's not everything. These are the two or three that actually matter. So making sure that you don't just understand your customer, but also understanding your customers customers a little bit as well to give them the right mix of what they need is a great way to give a point of differentiation.

Rosa:
I going to add to that how the market is changing. You know, Jonathan mentioned earlier that there's all these changes that are going on with COVID and one of my personal shopping habits changes. You know, we're all itching to get out of the house. And I'm hesitant to go to hotels because you don't want to encounter that many people. You've got all that air that's being circulated in there. So the big ideas, I'll do an Airbnb before I would do a hotel. So even this morning, I'm looking on my phone because I want to get away. And now you see listings that are in there where they're now certified at a certain cleanliness and cleanliness level that they're taking care of. And I'll send that to catch my attention. Well, I want everyone to be at that cleanliness level, you know, and even at that micro level where you have these individual listings, you can see that these these homeowners are just combating against each other about how can I make sure everyone is safe and secure? And they feel that and they see that.

Steve:
Yeah, it's almost like a new element has entered into what the customer is going to assess in terms of their purchase decision, so. Hey, let's change a little bit. Jonathan, you came up on my screen here, but let's just talk about being a CX pro. And and, you know, what is it about this profession that brings you the most joy or why did you gravitate towards this as a profession for your career?

Johnathan:
Yeah, great question, Steve. You know, I love the fact that it's right brain and left brain. It's both an art and a science. You know, there really is no right or wrong way to do this. But what I really love most about this is the great impact that a small gesture can have on a customer. And I can't really think of a better ROI. I can't think of a more cost effective way for a brand to compete that differentiating themselves through the experience that they deliver.

Steve:
Nicely put, Sandy.

Sandy:
Yeah, I love I always say if I could come up with the right answer all the time, everybody would do this. I think that there is something about understanding the human psyche that for me is like this puzzle that keeps peeling back layer after layer. I mean, I started out doing market research when it was called that and then customer insights. And so I've just been tracking along on this for a number of years at this point, at this point. And I just think it's just still fascinating. It keeps changing and you're just still trying to catch up with how is it changing? How do we do a better job? And to Jonathan's point around a gesture, whether it be something that you do for one segment, you do it for one customer, whatever, makes them feel really good about utilizing your services or your organization. It's it's just great stuff.

Steve:
How about you, Rosa?

Rosa:
I agree with all of that. I think I love seeing the satisfaction that comes on people's faces. When a customer gets excited, the person that delivered that experience gets excited. And then everybody is just, you know, we're part of that on a regular basis on being able to deliver that. And I love that part of it. And I agree with Sandy. It's you know, it's watching that social psychology. And what can you what seed can I plant here to make people move around and enjoy this experience? And I'd also agree that it's always something that we are not tracking that brings that joy, something like, wow, what made you come up with that idea to deliver that? That was awesome. Now we got to track that. [laughing]

Steve:
Yeah, it is. I think you guys really hit a very good and I think in my own life and we tend to work with lots of companies. But one of the twists I can put on it is that I feel very good that we are helping our clients be successful by doing right by their customers and employees. That is kind of a noble cause in my mind, is that the I am a believer in the free enterprise system and the ability of customers to seek out the best product for their needs and employees to find the best place that they can work. And I just think that this profession of ours helps put more transparency around that in terms of what people are getting and who's winning based on providing the best value.

Steve:
My guests on this special CX episode of the The CX Leader Podcast is Rosa Carbajal with NetApp, Sandra Mathis from H.C. Technologies, and Jonathan Ruchman with Brookdale Senior Living. We're having a fascinating discussion about what it is to be a CX pro and really proud to be associated with these three pros who came on the program today. I think they're given tremendous insights to all of us that call this profession what we do for a living. You guys also hit on a couple of things. Sandy, you mentioned you came up the market research route, which is the way I came up. But there's a couple other paths. Just, Jonathan, kind of what was your path into CX?

Johnathan:
I came up through brand marketing, so I was at some big ad agencies in New York and Chicago, then went client side. And and it really morphed into customer service because it is a one two punch. It's creating a brand image. That's the branding piece you're creating. Here's the promise that we're telling you we're going to deliver, but then you've got to pay off on it. You've got to pay it off. Right. So that's the two of the one two punch of the customer experience piece.

Steve:
Yeah. And actually, you're in a B2B space too. And, you know, one of the things I think like in consumer markets, you can create an image and maybe it's not quite as tangible, but when you got services and ongoing relationships, that alignment between what the image of the experience is going to be and how you actually deliver is critical. In fact, you can't get away with much if the experience doesn't meet the expectations.

Johnathan:
Well, that certainly sets the tone for a brand image we've had experience comes across. And what story are people telling about the brand.

Rosa:
Rosa I should know but what's your background? How did you get into the CX field?

Rosa:
I am also a market research based. I started my career working for a small legal claim substantiate… Claim substantiation firm. So it was our job to confirm before Tylenol could say nine out of ten children really do prefer berry flavored Tylenol over whoever else. And so that was that was us. That made it made it OK for them to make that claim.

Steve:
I've talked to a lot of interesting pros over the years on the podcast. And another common path is out of the customer service or support area. You know, we're trying to figure out how to systematically deal with the issues that customers were having. And I think another interesting one, Jonathan, you're more of a traditional brand marketer, but there's a lot of direct marketing involved in customer experience, too, because, you know, really what we're trying to do is deliver good experiences to each individual touchpoint for each individual customer. Really CX is kind of, I think, one of the reasons it's become, I think, such a key part of business at this standpoint is it it's sort of aggregates a lot of those different aspects in the organization. How do you think that the role of CX has evolved maybe in the last couple of years, but maybe more importantly, where do you think we're going with this thing?

Sandy:
Yeah, I, I think when I think about where CX is going. Part of me says, like literally I'm doing the "pshhhew" my, you know, on my head right now.

Steve:
Yeah, blows my mind.

Sandy:
Right. Because if I think about when I first came out, I came out of school and, you know, back in the mid 90s, it was this wasn't wasn't a field. Right. And so it just continues to evolve in my mind. I think there's this like kind of a notion of so while my title is I'm doing I'm a CX strategist, the reality is I'm a little bit still of a jack of all trades. Right. So I still need to understand what the research to understand what's going on with my clients from a background where they fundamentally been and where are they trying to go to. But I think there's a little bit of in the future there, this blending. So I a lot of times talk about in CXPA that I wish some days that we could just skip the word, the "C" part that it really is all about, whatever that experience professionals are. So in my role right now, there's this blending of CX. It's also digital, it's also transformation. So I don't see those sorts of things going away. I think we're just going to start to see more of that blending in that morphing, because even in getting conversations when people say, well, depending upon what their company is, it may be that they're not talking so much about customer experience, but they are talking about the experience. They are talking about the delivery. And so when you start to talk to people who work in these sort of other professions that are in the same neighborhood, the reality is there's a lot there's like these points where there's this overlap. And so I think we're going to start to see more of more of that come forth in the next couple of a couple of years, as much as is happening a little bit in pockets here and there, because you've also still got people who are still trying to get their programs moving.

Rosa:
It's interesting that you mentioned transformation. I'm wondering if you can expound on that a little further, because I'm kind of seeing that as well.

Sandy:
Mm hmm. Yeah. So if I think about right now someone I'm a project I'm working on right now, it is all about their digital transformation, but the reality is their customer is still foundational to all of that. So as a result, we need to understand how do you where are they today and how do we get them where they need to be in the future? Because all of, you know, the way we interact with our computers and our phones are continuing to change, and so it's important to be able to start to put together that plan over the next few years that gets them to that place that people are not left behind and then also recognize some people are never going to fully come. So how do you make sure you're not leaving your customers, some of them that segment behind as that happens as well.

Steve:
Rosa, what are some of the trends that you see that's going to happen as we go forward?

Rosa:
I see a huge trend in decentralized customer experience where, you know, as it starts to resonate more and more across all across various teams, everyone wants and I would also say needs their own individual, their own resources that are really looking at what does this mean in the context of what we're currently trying to provide. But what does this also mean in the context of what is the entire enterprise trying to provide? Where do we fit in? And how does the how does that whole journey. Everyone is more journey aware it feels like and I agree with Sandy that there's that transformation with that kind of plays into all of that, because then you realize as that awareness increases, oh, the work that I'm doing is adversely impacting this other area within my organization. That's a transformation need right there. I need to change what I'm doing to smooth out this experience, to make it better and to make sure that we're all aligned in in the goals that we're trying to deliver. It's great stuff to see. I'm excited because as I see people coming to these roles one day, they're a support representative and the next day their customer customer in charge of customer success for X, Y, Z within the company. And then they want to talk to me more. Hey, I'm in this role now. What can we do together? [laughing] It's fun.

Steve:
It is fun. Jonathan, what are your big macro things you think going forward?

Johnathan:
I really think that the future is in XM, experience management. You know, the holistic integration of experience data with operational data. I see better integration with CX as well as employee experience and technology has really changed the game here. And if you look out there to see what platforms are available to manage experienced management, it all coming together, it's a game changer. It's new. It's definitely a… It's not a new concept. It's kind of a new branding, if you will, XM. But I really think we're going to start to hear a lot more about that.

Steve:
Yeah, I think we already are starting to see that. And I think all three of you made comments about how the role of the CX pro continues to really have to spread across the entire organization. I remember we had a guest on one day that said that they get so tired of people talking about silos that they try to build the bridges in the organization because really to be customer focused is it has to involve everybody. It has to be pervasive throughout the whole organization. Maybe I'll ask another question for you is like, what do you think is kind of the most important thing you do for not your specific organization, but what do you think is kind of the most critical qualities or aspects of a CX pro to be effective today, Jonathan?

Johnathan:
Yeah, it's a great question. And what I would say is that I think our job as leader is to take very complex concepts and data and information, put it into a blender and spit it out into everyday, actionable language, because our job as a leader is to influence and inspire. And for the people who really have to deliver on that, you have to you have to translate it at the very top. So I love that, too. I love that about my job.

Steve:
Sandy?

Sandy:
Yeah, I would agree with what Jonathan was just saying. It is a matter of kind of taking all of those bits and pieces and being able to make sure that it's understood from leadership. But I think it's also there's the sort of leadership and that is the next level down and then making sure that people who are on the lower levels understand that their roles matter as well when it comes to customer customer experience, that we're all ultimately, at the end of the day, touching it, you know, touching the customer, whether we recognize it or we're not. I think the other part of of doing this job is being able to really listen and listen well. And what that means is, as I say, if you're going to ask a question, be prepared for the answer and you can't shut your ears. You have to figure out how do you really use it. And then to what Jonathan was just saying, make sure that it's actionable or at appear someplace versus people you still love to ask questions like that, I don't know. Well, we're not going to ask it like there needs to be some reason and some purpose behind what we're doing and what we're asking of them.

Steve:
Nice. I love the part about bringing everybody into that equation. Rosa, what kind of is the thing that you think is the most gratifying about your role or the thing that you enjoy the most?

Rosa:
I love the relationships which I think is also a play off of what we've heard from Jonathan and Sandy, the relationships. It's critical for us to understand our stakeholder's businesses. Right? That's where the trust comes in and that's where they know they can rely on you. And once you know… once they know you can speak their language, they'll be comfortable enough in divulging information and asking you to uncover the complexity that is the customer, the customer relationship. And when you can do that and be able to speak their language back to them and say, hey, this is where I'm finding an issue, or here's where I'm finding a great spot, or hey, I've discovered this area that maybe wasn't on their radar. That's the… That's the… Those are the moments because, you know, we mentioned earlier about the satisfaction that we have and being able to deliver this to employees and to the customers. But it also comes back that that's the great satisfaction where you found something that was under the radar and everybody says, oh, yeah, we've got to do something about that. And it's just the the the sensation across the team to be able to work together. And and when they say yes, and then let's measure that again next time that I know score, we're making progress here.

Steve:
I love the fact that you've added in the element of trust. And I think that is just such an essential part of being effective in our roles. I'm going to ask you guys a question about, you know, because we've been talking about, you know, why we like the business and what motivates us and some of that. But what's the thing that you're really hoping to figure out in the next year or what's something that you're saying, hey, we've got to crack the code on on something and I'll go I'll go to you first, Sandy.

Sandy:
I think right now, the thing that I am hoping and it's something that's been going on for a while is how do we do help better break down the silos in between, whether you break down silos, whether it's across products, whether it's across, you know, functional areas to really make a more holistic experience. So in my mind, the thing I think about is if you have an assembly line, whether it's a car or it's a hamburger, you know, you've kind of got your pieces right. So everybody kind of has the responsibilities that are going through. But if that doesn't continue to go on down the assembly line, is it should you get something on the other end that is broken or is not as tasty as it's supposed to be because maybe somebody skipped this ketchup? So I think it's important to make sure that if you can't fully break down the silos, if it takes a lot of time, it's always maybe about that first kind of attack, like how do you start to break it and make a bridge in between, whether that is an individual or it is a team, again, to make sure that everybody is is working towards the same common good and delivering a concise, total experience for the customers the way it's intended and designed to be.

Steve:
Rosa, what's on your to do list?

Rosa:
I big to do list I think is to I like the tapping motion that that Sandy gave. You know, I feel like there's things that you have to chip away at. And the thing I would like to chip away at is there are certain experiences that can be changed and influenced. But the process behind what makes those experiences happen is a big mountain, Frankenstein mountain of process that has that's a legacy process that's difficult to tear apart. And nobody wants to address it because it's too hard to take all those bandaids off and unscrew the screws and the sense is that you have to attack the mountain of Frankenstein before you can do anything about it, where, you know, if you could just fix the pinkie or an elbow, you can make some progress. And, you know, my challenge this year is, you know, tapping again and seeing if we can start chipping away at those little pieces so that a little bit of progress can be made. We don't have to attack the mountain, but let's let's start chipping away at it.

Steve:
Yeah, even the longest journey starts with the first steps. I like that. I think the concept of chipping away at things is excellent for CX pros. Jonathan, what's on your wish list?

Johnathan:
Yeah, I think really to get to the next level, it's about leveraging an amazing feedback platform that we have in place now and leveraging relationships and partnerships with leaders across the organization to integrate employee and customer experience data to tell one story. It's not just CX. It's not just EX. It's one holistic story. So we're just getting started here. It's so exciting where we could take this.

Steve:
It is exciting. It's a great time to be a CX pro. And I'm honored to have you three pros on on the podcast this week. All right, pros, we've reached that part of the podcast where I always ask our guests for take home value. This is your best tip. And the idea is that if I'm a CX pro and I'm listening to the podcast driving to my office or getting ready to go to work, give me your best tip for how I can improve my professionalism starting today. Jonathan, why don't you kick off?

Johnathan:
Yeah. So, you know, given the pandemic right now, today, Steve, customer feedback has never been more important since we don't know what the impact of the epidemic has had on consumers and their thoughts and feelings and emotions and loyalty. We need to really understand it and address it. Everybody's been impacted us in one way or another as a personal life and professional life. I wrote about and I don't know anybody that's been through a global pandemic before, but so we need to…

Steve:
You'd have to be over 100 years old.

Johnathan:
Right. And we might have some folks at Brookdale, but we we don't know. We just don't know what the change has been. We know there's been an impact on brand loyalty, but really to get into the minds of our customers, we need we need to find out and we need to find out quickly and pretty deeply.

Steve:
Sandy, what's your best take home value for our listeners today?

Sandy:
Yeah, I'm so kind of taking off of what Jonathan was saying slightly is I'm a big proponent on closing the loop. So if you ask for some information, make sure you're doing some sort of follow up. So it's not just if they gave you bad information. I believe that if somebody gives you great, you know, gives you great feedback and or gives a new idea that that loop should be closed to say, hey, we've either heard you or these are the changes that were we're making and that will then help increase your loyalty. And then it comes also back to trust because you're going to demonstrate to them that you are trusting that you can be trusted with that information versus I got it and it goes off into the ether someplace. So figure out ways to to make sure you're doing that as well.

Steve:
Yeah, close the loop is essential. And, you know, if you do ask people's opinions, you better make sure you listen. And if you're not going to do anything about it, you better explain why. Rosa?

Rosa:
I also in agreement with Jonathan, I think it's simply walk in the customer's shoes. I, I think a lot can be explained. Analysis aside, outreach aside, there are times, you know, I will sit in a meeting and there is healthy debate over what action to take. And I'm a big fan of taking down the PowerPoint presentation and just saying, hey, let's just stop close your eyes real quick. Let's walk through what this looks like and does it make sense.

Steve:
Thank you. Thanks to all my guests for your tremendous insights on this special CX Day episode. My guests today have been Rosa Carbajal from NetApp, Sandra Mathis from H.C. Technologies, and Jonathan Ruchman with Brookdale Senior Living. Appreciate all of you being a part of the show today. Thanks. Thanks for sharing your time. And if people would want to try to continue the dialog, can they find you on LinkedIn, Is everybody on LinkedIn?

Sandy:
Yes.

Johnathan:
Yes,

Rosa:
Absolutely.

Steve:
Great. That's one of the neat things about the The CX Leader Podcast is we just keep expanding our community of like-minded professionals. And if you want to talk about anything you heard on the podcast about how Walker can help your business customer experience, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Be sure to check out our website, cxleaderpodcast.com, to subscribe to the show and find all of our previous episodes, podcast series, contact information. And you can let us know how we're doing and drop us a note. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker, we're an experienced management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at Walkerinfo.com. Thanks for listening. Happy CX Day, everybody, and we'll see you again next time.