Data and Design Make Great Experiences

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Pat:
If you decide to rethink your customer experience, bear in mind that data and design are both important.

Caroline:
What's unique about us is that we're actually a team of specialists in various different aspects. So we specialize in CX. But I also have colleagues that I work with that specialize in UX design, also in data. I can't do my job really well without these guys because we're working together in synergy, and we do that through the design thinking process.

Pat:
Let's look at how an electric utility used design thinking backed with data to reimagine the customer experience. We'll cover that on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Pat:
Hello everyone, I'm Pat Gibbons, and thank you for joining us for this episode of The CX Leader Podcast. You know, it's never been a better time to be a CX leader, and we explore the topics and themes to help leaders like you develop great programs and deliver amazing experiences for your customers. You know, there's an adage that implies somehow that designers and data scientists sometimes don't always see eye to eye. Designers look for the esthetics and the functionality while developers and researchers lean towards the data. But hey, why is that? We can all get along and there's no reason why we can't work together. You can use data to create usable and esthetic designs that support excellent customer experiences. Well, our guest today helped her organization do just that. Caroline Quinlan is an award winning digital CX manager for Electric Ireland. Caroline, welcome to The CX Leader Podcast.

Caroline:
Thanks so much, Patrick. Thanks for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

Pat:
Well, we're we're glad to have you. And first, I want to start by congratulating you, because I want to tell our listeners that you were recently honored as a recipient of the 2023 Emerging Leader Award from the Customer Experience Professionals Association, or the CXPA. That is quite an honor. Congratulations.

Caroline:
Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I was really surprised. I have to say the competition out there is fierce, you know, and there's so many experts and knowledgeable people doing amazing work. So it was a real pleasure and a surprise as well.

Pat:
Well, that even makes it more sweet. And, you know, just so our listeners know, you know, there were only five people recognized globally. So that's a pretty big deal. So again, you know, congratulations. I think you're in really good company. And and always we we love to see people that are contributing so much to our profession. So that's great.

Caroline:
So it's a pleasure not even like work really.

Pat:
And that makes it even better. Well, tell us a little about yourself. I know you've got a great background in digital marketing and digital CX. We always love to know how did people get into their role and in customer experience. So give us a little bit of background.

Caroline:
Yeah. Well, I suppose like mine was I always think about it as like a three chapter career. So I started off in retail and sales, working in department stores, interacting with customers on a daily basis. I then moved into training, so I was working for companies doing training, design and training programs, training their customers, training their staff all in around customer service and experience actually, as well as the products and the brands that the different companies provided. And this was really exciting. And actually the last company that I worked for in training was a software company, and that's where I kind of got really interested, I suppose, in the online space, and I could track and see the businesses who are performing well online and were growing, you know, financially as well, because the software was integrated into their marketing and into their reporting. So everything was really, really clear. And it started to get me thinking about the online space and the marketing, particularly online. So I went back to study that and then worked for a few years within the digital marketing space. And that has really evolved over the last couple of years and changed. There's a lot more focus, I suppose, on the customer really connecting to your customer and marketing in very different ways than it was when I originally started. So along the journey, I came across an amazing company called The CX Company, which I worked for their consultancy based company in Ireland doing global work as well. And they are part of an academy. They have an academy with CX academy and I did had the great pleasure of doing training with them. I did my certificate there in CX and also the diploma course, which is amazing. And that gave me a really great foundation in the practice. And I then just fell in love with everything, and I had to kind of move forward and really try and find a role where CX was at the heart of it. And that brings me to where I currently am in my role at Electric Ireland as digital CX manager.

Pat:
The great, great story, great chapters, as you say, that really lead up to a lot of good experience. And, you know, we always hear people coming from different areas to get into CX. But one of the things you said, you know, that, you know, you kind of latched onto it and you kind of fell in love with it. And that's that is one of the things that kind of becomes common. It is something that people become passionate about, which we just we love to hear, so.

Caroline:
Yeah, no, definitely. I couldn't imagine doing anything else now. And actually the previous experiences I've had have really kind of fed into where I am now because it's always been about the customer. Like no matter what role I was doing, it was always about the customer interacting with them and the communications with them. So it's great to to really be able to use that previous experience as well.

Pat:
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's, let's talk a little bit about your organization, Electric Ireland. And as a preface, I think it's important for me to kind of clarify something for those that are listening from the US. When we hear of an electric company, we think of a utility that is kind of a monopoly or kind of publicly held and which basically, from a CX standpoint that translates to the customers don't have a choice, they just are on whatever electric system that is within their city. And and it even begs the question, well, what's the role of CX. Sometimes it's regulatory, which can actually be negative. There… they might be conducting a program just to check a box. Other times, though, I think the most innovative ones have said, yeah, it may not be about losing customers, but it's still about providing a great experience. But all of that said, it's different with your organization. So tell us a little bit about your organization and how that works in your country.

Caroline:
Yeah. So Electric Ireland is it's one of the largest utility providers in Ireland and providing electricity predominantly, but also gas as well and throughout the island. But I suppose the difference here is that customers have a choice. They don't have to select Electric Ireland as their provider. There's many other providers out there that they can choose. So when our customers choose us, it's a great privilege because they could go anywhere, but they're choosing to come to us and to stay with us. So, you know, for for many years, which is a great kind of compliment to the work that the company does.

Pat:
Yeah. Yeah, it's an important difference that I wanted to make sure that our listeners were aware of. So at Electric Ireland, they kind of went on a path of kind of redesigning the customer experience. Is that correct?

Caroline:
Yeah, really kind of reimagining the customer experience. And just I suppose our company is quite large and there's a larger company, there's a large amount of data and that comes with us like we have access to so much reports and so on. But I suppose the the question was like, how are we using that data and how can that data help us in improving the customer experience and interactions, particularly in the digital space as well? So what Electric Ireland set on a path to do was actually improve their customer experience through the use of data. So that's kind of where where we started from I suppose.

Pat:
Wow. So in gathering all the data, what types of things were you analyzing or where did you start with that?

Caroline:
Yeah, I suppose we have we have an amazing team. So our team is it's not just CX. So what's unique about us is that we're actually a team of specialists. We specialize in various different aspects. So we specialize in CX. But I also have colleagues that I work with that specialize in UX design and also in data. So I work really closely actually with both on either side. So I can't do my job really well without these guys because we're working together in synergy and we do that through the design thinking process.

Pat:
So yeah, I guess how did it all kind of unfold? You started looking at data that you had, I assume usage data, service data, you know, those sorts of things to try to, you know, begin reimagining the process and, and take us through a little bit of your design thinking. It's it's obviously something that has become more common. But I think a lot of people are still pretty new to it. So I'd love to hear a little bit of the steps that you went through.

Caroline:
I think it's still fairly a new concept for a lot of companies. It's been around for a while, but I think now we're really starting to embrace it because it just makes sense and it allows better collaboration between teams as well. So you can see the connection points and how everyone works together better. So for myself and focusing on CX, I start in the very top of the design thinking pyramid, which is all about research. So it's all about kind of gathering the data, pulling the insights and the research together, and really kind of painting the picture of where we are currently and where we want to get to. So that's kind of my phase of the experiment, if you like. So I'm at the very start of that journey. And so what I do is I collaborate with our data analytics team and our insights team to gather as much information as they possibly can about what our customers are doing online, how they're interacting with the product, how long they're may be spending on certain pages where they're falling off. So what what that allows me to see is clear kind of pain points in the data, like where the challenges our customers are, are having in the online space and interacting with us. And there's so much of this, but I suppose the, the, a really important part is bringing the data, but also the insights. So that kind of customer thinking, what are they thinking? What's their thinking process behind the actions that they're taking. So in that research space, it's not just the numbers, but it's also kind of focus groups. It's doing surveys, it's doing user testing. It's really kind of bringing bringing together both the quantitative and the qualitative data to give a full holistic view.

Caroline:
And that really gives me everything that I need to kind of go, okay, these are the key pain points. So this is what we need to improve in order to make that experience better. And then I'll move that along in that process. And I'll collaborate on the other side of the pyramid with the UX and the design. And they do a great job in visualizing what it is that I want to really improve that journey. So they'll do a wireframes, create prototypes that which allows for further testing to be done with their customers so that we know when we create something, that it's really what the customer wants. And this makes, I suppose, everything better from for the company, because, you know, you're spending less money, you're getting exactly what the customer wants. And from the experience point of view, the customers are happy because we've listened to them and really kind of take on board and everything that they've been saying to us. So it's a it's a really nice process. And obviously that then moves along to actual development of the product and you see the end results, which is brilliant. And then you can get some real kind of, I suppose, measurement in terms of the impact that that change has had on our customers. So it's a really exciting process. Yeah. And I think that collaboration is what makes it work really, really well, because if you're working in isolation, you can only do so much. So I think using the strengths of the people around you is really important.

Pat:
Yeah. So I kind of want to go back and unpack a little bit of this. This is really fascinating process. So the when you're gathering all of this and you're kind of trying to determine all the pain points, what was it like to prioritize those? I mean, did you I assume you had some. That's like we got to work on this right away. And others are like, this is obviously something that's not perfect, but it can wait. I mean, how did you go through that process of determining where do I start?

Caroline:
It is it is really difficult, I won't lie, like because you have all of these great ideas and you have so much information in front of you that, you know, putting it into an order, I would prioritize it. It is really difficult. So again, I would lean to the people around me to help with that. And so our teams would come together and we'd sit down. We'd look at all of the different suggestions that maybe have been put forward in terms of we need to improve, you know, X, Y and z. And what we would do then is as a team together, we would actually, with our expertise, be able to prioritize it into an order of ease, you know, so that we could kind of work through this. So we maybe start with the ones that are really easy, you know, quick, quick wins. Let's let's go with those first and get something over the line. And then we do always have ones that are a bit more challenging. You know it requires a lot more development work. We're going to have to work on this for a little while and there are long term wins. So we'll kind of work on those, you know, over a period of time. But together is really how we do it. Again, I couldn't I couldn't sit there and prioritize them myself because I just don't have maybe enough technical knowledge. Can I bring this to life? Probably not. You know, I'm not sure. So having those people around is really important and asking the right questions as you're going through the process.

Pat:
Yeah.

Pat:
So working with the team, it sounds like you had a team that was very open minded. But I still have to ask, are there times where, you know, you said, look, this is a pain point and somebody's like, oh, come on, is that really a big deal or whatever? Or how did they approach it, you know, and just their receptiveness to say, okay, I see where the customer is having issue or simply I can't argue with the data, you know, how would how did some of those conversations go?

Caroline:
It's a bit of a mix. You know, sometimes it's very cut and dry and it's like, okay, well, the numbers are telling us this or had this focus group on the customers come back and they've said this is a problem for them. Like we have to fix it. So in that case it's great because I have something to support it. But in other cases it's just it's a hypothesis. It's like, okay, I think this is why the customer might be doing this…

Pat:
Okay,

Caroline:
…this interaction or journey. And I think that this is a problem and that one's always the hardest, harder one to do because now I have to kind of convince people like, why would that be a challenge? So that's when I started pulling out things like, okay, these are the key emotional drivers. You can see that if you did this, this would hinder your trust of a company, or this would hinder kind of the ease of a process. And so that kind of then pulled on that kind of thing. But it's always harder, more challenging. You know, there's a lot more negotiations and back and forth and you maybe come to a middle ground in the end. But yeah, quite a process.

Pat:
Right? No, that makes sense. And then I'm intrigued by then the process of once you identified something, the team would build a wireframe or build a prototype to be able to go back to a set of customers or a focus group to say, okay, we're focusing on this. It seems like customers have a problem here. Here's the way we have kind of redesigned it. What do you think? Maybe you can tell us a little more about that process. But I'm also curious, did you ever go back to the customer and they and they said, no, no, that's no better. Or, you know, or go back to the drawing board. How did how did that go?

Caroline:
Yeah.

Pat:
Okay. Good.

Caroline:
Sometimes it's you know, it's a case okay. It's a very simple wireframe. It's not fully developed you know. So they're often looking at it going, okay, visually this doesn't look very pretty or you know, it doesn't look very nice. And that's probably the the key thing that happens. But once you kind of explain like this is just a wireframe, it's really just to kind of give us an idea of how this product or service might work. And that's fine. So we'll take all of their feedback and everything. And it just means when we get to the final version, you know, we can try and do it as close to that feedback as possible.

Speaker4:
Right.

Pat:
And then it sounds like you also collected data once you then put a new process in place, did you kind of follow it to say, indeed, we were getting the result we wanted? Or maybe there are times where it's like we didn't get the improvement we quite expected. How did how did that go?

Caroline:
Yeah, it's again, it's never really kind of. Certain that you're going to get the outcome that you want. Like, you might you might have an idea or something in your mind, and then you go into the focus group, or you put it on the user testing platforms and you let people interact with it. And it's kind of like, no, like, no, I'm not feeling this product or I'm not. I don't get it. Like and you kind of hit with some not the answers that you were looking for. You kind of thought, okay, this is going to go in a very different direction. I really think we're going to get it, get a certain type of feedback from this. But they just surprise you. And, and I think it's, it's a good thing because sometimes we just think that we have all the answers, and we think that if we make this simple fix that, that's going to be what the customer wants. So I think having that voice of the customer through things like testing and focus groups and surveys, it's so important. And it's such a key part of that. The the process of design and improve on the is really listening to what the customer wants and not thinking that we know everything and just be prepared for like surprises along the way.

Pat:
Yeah, yeah. I think that sometimes that's the toughest thing is, oh, I see why they're having this problem. I understand it, I get it. And but to be able to just remove yourself from that, you know, you develop an attachment like I've got the answer.

Caroline:
Yeah. Like I won't lie, it is disappointing sometimes when you've kind of put so much work in and you've got this great idea or concept and you're thinking, this is a winner, you know, and then you get the feedback and it just not not what you want to hear. Um, and like you said, you're very attached to it, you know, um, because you've created that. So it is difficult to hear it. But I think just making sure that we're keeping in mind that it's not about us, it's about the customer. And and once we're building products around that, you know, we're doing the right thing.

Pat:
Yeah, yeah. Were there other challenges through the process? I mean, it obviously had little things here and there, but other things that forced you to pivot along the way?

Caroline:
Yeah for sure. Like, you know, again, you might have your idea that you've come up with your CX solution. You know, out of all of the information that you have and you have a suggestion or an idea to create something or change something within a system or platform. And as I said, I'm not not a very technical person. I do the digital marketing, but when it comes to developing or changing and creating something new, I don't have the knowledge for that. And I just see the ideal picture. And so I might pass that information to our product owners who then talk to the developers and they're like, this is not possible. Like, we can't do this within, you know, it could be a budget issue, or it could be just the tools that we're using. It's not possible to create this. And you have to kind of think, okay, if I can't do that, you know what, what changes can I make that will have the biggest impact? Then what do I have to work with? So again, it's just trying to gather as much information as you can from that expert who can help you and create this product and get yourself to a space where it's a minimal, minimal viable product. Okay, so we have the key key functionalities that are going to make the biggest impact. And maybe that's enough. And maybe we start there and see how we get on. And if we get enough interaction and positive feedback, maybe we can look at ways that we might improve that in the future, and maybe the technologies will improve or whatever it might be. So yeah, you definitely get setbacks and you just have to you have to pivot and think, okay, what is the the basics that I need here to really enhance this experience? I won't get everything that I want, but you know, I'll get halfway there.

Pat:
Yeah. So Caroline, I love this process. Can you give us an example of maybe something that kind of went through the process that prompted something new?

Caroline:
Yeah. Well, I suppose at the moment where we've created, we've actually just launched a new app for Electric Ireland, which is in in the app stores for Android and Apple at the moment. So I suppose this was a really exciting thing for us as a company. And when we had thought about creating an app, we wanted it to be the best, you know, the Rolls-Royce of the app experience. And when it comes to utility, and I suppose with that in mind, we had put put together a brief for, you know, all of the different functionalities so people could log into this app. They could do their payments, they could pay their bills, they would be able to track their their loyalty, their rewards. They'd be able to see insights of their energy usage. You know, where they're using that energy, all of these fantastic things. And we put it together and obviously moved it forward into proposing this to our development team. And we were presented with some challenges, some setbacks, some limitations, you know, due to, again, technology, budget restraints and so on. But what we did really well as a team is we were able to take that feedback, bring it back in, and we're able to kind of prioritize. I suppose the key functionalities, what's most important that we're able to provide to our customers immediately, and what can we develop and slowly kind of integrate over time to make this product better? So we've started the product, the office out there, and it's all really focused in around payments and bills at the moment, meter readings as well.

Caroline:
If people don't have a smart product, they can go in and enter their meter reading, so it gives a great functionality with it. You can obviously download your bills, all of that information there and pay your bills through it. But I suppose where it's it's lacking is in some of the other things that we, we really wanted to bring true. So we're slowly starting to integrate those now – baby steps. It's a long process. So the next step for us is the insights, which are now going to be integrated into the app shortly, which will allow our customers to be able to see how they're actually using their energy, where they're using it most, and track that. And that will be a fantastic win for us and will add value for our customers. So it's just a slow process in terms of, I suppose, working through. And you have to just stay focused on, you know, basic functionality and then all of these beautiful enhancements that you're kind of working towards over time.

Pat:
Yeah, no, that's a great example and something that clearly will enhance the experience of your customers. So yeah, you know, for the company in general, you know I'm interested in just some of the the impact that you've seen from the customer focused changes, both even internally. I would think that that causes some, you know, excitement within the organization to see changes. And then also with your customers, it sounds like you're getting some good results. Is that true?

Caroline:
Yeah, definitely. I think probably just from an internal point of view, it has been a big kind of culture shift, kind of like trying to get that kind of CX mindset going. And so that I suppose the message really what we're trying to get across the organization is that it's not a department, you know, it is a mindset and everyone is really involved in that. So it doesn't matter if you're working in the marketing or you're answering the phone in the call center. We're all kind of on the same path, which is really to make sure the customer gets the best experience possible, you know, with our brand. So I think just trying to break down kind of any barriers to that and just make sure that culturally we understand that customer experience is is involving everybody and we all have to be on board with it. So that's kind of internal. And then externally, I suppose we've seen great kind of improvement in feedback coming back from our customers. And in terms of things like our Net Promoter Score and our CSAT scores are slowly kind of rising. As you know, these things take time to kind of adjust…

Pat:
They do indeed.

Caroline:
…particularly with utilities in Ireland anyway. It's very challenging because of the cost of living crisis. There's can be, you know, some negativity sometimes around utilities and energy providers. So it's challenging like to kind of make sure that that that we're kind of really reflecting that that we do care about the customer and that everything that we're doing is really with them in mind. And we also focus a lot as a company on net zero. That's a big focus for us and something that we're working really hard towards, you know, making sure that we're providing clean energy. And this is also kind of, I suppose, showcasing how much the company cares when it comes to to people and the environment and the future for Ireland as well, when it comes to energy.

Pat:
Yeah. Well, we've come to that time in the podcast where we ask you to provide some take home value for our listeners. So, Caroline, give us your best tip that leaders can take away and put to use in their organizations.

Caroline:
Yeah. So it was really hard to think of one thing. So I don't know, there's maybe two things or less, but my, my biggest thing that that I use myself every single day when I'm doing anything involving is I use a CX framework and it includes the emotional drivers. So everything that I do, whether it's thinking of a new feature or making an improvement to anything along the journey for a customers, it's always constantly thinking about how does this impact on trust for the customer? How does it support our promise to the customer? How is it connecting to them, helping their understanding, supporting them, and making things easy for them? So I always kind of come back to those kind of five kind of core emotional drivers. So I would say definitely that's that for me is the tool I use every day. And then the other thing is really kind of utilizing the specialists around you, and in particularly the data would have to say is for me is a must. I must have to allow me to be able to make meaningful changes to what we do in our organization and support our customers. So that data does need to be not just numbers, but you need to bring the human side to it as well. So that's where the insights and that kind of research, the customer conversations is really important so that you get that full holistic view. And I think if you can do that, that's where you get real impact with this and real measurements that mean something to the kind of key stakeholders and to the company. And that's where you really bring your value. So that would be my biggest takeaway.

Pat:
I think it's excellent advice and a beautiful way to kind of pull together our conversation. It's just a really nice summary. So Caroline, if someone wants to continue the conversation, is it okay if they reach out to you via LinkedIn?

Caroline:
Yeah of course. Yeah, LinkedIn is my absolute favorite platform. I think it's great for networking. So absolutely. Please reach out at any point. Yeah.

Pat:
Great. Great. Well Caroline Quinlan is the digital manager for Electric Ireland. Caroline, thank you for being on The CX Leader Podcast and sharing your story.

Caroline:
Thank you so much. Thanks, Patrick.

Pat:
And if you want to talk about anything you heard on this podcast or how Walker can help you with your businesses customer experience, feel free to email us at podcast@walkerinfo.com. And remember to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating on your podcast service and give us a review, because your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our listeners. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to follow the show and find all our previous 291 episodes. Our podcast series are there and a link to our blog which we update regularly. And also you'll find our contact information so you can let us know how we're doing. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker, where an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. And you can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. We'll see you next time.

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