Everybody is a Consumer

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Steve:
We're CX professionals and we love numbers. Nothing communicates better than showing a graph with some hard data, right? But some things can be more difficult to represent with simple mathematical values.

Nathan:
Best in class companies are obsessed with listening to calls. And now with the technology, like a lot of us have, where we own the phone systems and it's cloud based, you can just schedule a meeting, play those calls in these sessions for people to listen to, and that's really impactful. That gets people engaged. That starts to break down silos.

Steve:
Quantifying the value of service on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello everyone. I'm Steve Walker and thank you for listening. I'm the host of The CX Leader Podcast, and it's like we say on the podcast, it's never been a better time to be a CX leader, and we are here to explore the topics and themes to help leaders like you deliver amazing experiences for your customers. Data is flying everywhere and CX pros are always striving to gobble up whatever insights they can get about their customers. It's easy to look at an average support call time or NPS score to get an idea of how things are going. But what about the things that are more difficult to quantify? How do you find a hard number for something like customer service? Well, I'm really excited about my guest today who's going to give us some additional insight into this topic. Nathan Bobay, he's the director of consumer service at Delta Faucets, a brand that's no stranger to this podcast and probably to most consumers and most households out there. Nathan, thank you for being a guest on The CX Leader Podcast.

Nathan:
Thanks for having me, Steve.

Steve:
Hey, it's a pleasure. We're big fans of Delta. Your colleague appeared on one of our previous episodes. In fact, we just reran it this summer. You know, you're not really in the hardware business. You're in the you're in the lifestyle, and it's a fashion business, really. But I always like to start with just a little bit of background on the individual and then give us a little more detail on Delta Faucet as well. Tell us about your journey to become a CX pro and then tell us a little more about Delta Faucet.

Nathan:
Oh, sure. I always tell people to peel my own career onion. You know, we don't end up in customer service by studying it in college. So my parents pushed me for a security and stability. Get it, get a degree and write your ticket and so I studied accounting in college, actually, and became a CPA and wasn't real happy with the work I was doing and wanted to work for someplace that actually did something that I could connect with a little bit more. And my wife at the time was and she has a background in interior design. And so, you know, she looks at at a home and it's what can it become versus what it is. And when the job at Delta Faucet came available, I felt like I could connect that to the home life and see, you know, sort of how she saw a bigger picture and integrated kind of both personal interest and career interest wasn't doing that myself. So just been grateful for the opportunities at Delta. The growth opportunities have had great leadership and, you know, someone approached me at one point about customer service because I was interested in leadership as a next phase of my my journey.

Nathan:
And that was probably ten years ago. And then the role that I'm in now came available a couple of years after that and just been been running with it and I love it. It's great. The people I work with are wonderful. They care about the company, they love the products, they love their coworkers and obviously care deeply about the consumer. And as far as Delta goes, Delta's been around in Indiana since early 1950s. Has a great foundational story. Armenian immigrant named Alex Manoogian that came through Ellis Island of $50 in his pocket. He discovered the ball valve faucet and bought the patent on it, started selling it out of the trunk of his car, built up Delta Faucet Company put a plant in Greensburg. It eventually grew into Masco Corporation. We're owned by Masco Corporation, Fortune 500 company, publicly traded. And so a sister company with with BEHR Paint, just just to name another another brand in the portfolio. So a lot of home building products and yeah, Delta is one of the North America's largest plumbing products companies.

Steve:
And you go you run the whole gamut, right? B2B…

Nathan:
Yeah.

Steve:
…institutional. And then you're on the consumer side, right?

Nathan:
Yeah. So my yeah, so my team and I cover the like when you think of warranty, contact center operations, the warranties with the end consumer who buys it from our business partners likely.

Steve:
So you know, one of the concepts that you put forward is, you know, services should be human to human. What do you mean by that? Where did that come from?

Nathan:
I guess at the end, it's two people interacting wherever service or product that you're that you're supporting that you're selling. So it's really just trying to get people to step back for a minute. And it's actually educational for the consumer, too. You know, we're on the inside and we're trying to provide support to the consumers. But it's also I'm like trying to tell you, Steve, hey, there's another person on the end of that text, that chat, that phone call. Because we hear some wild some wild calls and some wild conversations. And unfortunately, the service industry has to, I think, fix itself in a way because we've almost conditioned people to have to get aggressive and angry and act in like an almost unprofessional and inhuman way. So it's just it's really just trying to take a step back and just recognize it's two people having a conversation and and one person is usually trying to get resolution for a question or a problem that they have.

Steve:
Yeah, I had a guy on one time I'll never forget. He said, you know, when somebody calls in to call center or drops in a chat, they they either have a problem and they want a solution or they have a question and they want an answer. And it really kind of comes it kind of gets that simple, right?

Nathan:
Yeah. Yeah. We had I got a voicemail once from a consumer, and usually when it gets to my level, that's not a good thing.

Steve:
Yeah.

Nathan:
So I listen to this thing and she, she's actually complimenting the great service she got. All right, so, hey, home run like this is good. And then she says the killer phrase, something like. It. And today it's just such a surprise when you get good service and thought, Oh, that's what the industry is up against. That is the perception. This is this goes beyond Delta Faucet Company. We're a member of a large organization called SOCAP, and this is between quantifying service and just even this message here. It's think it's the hump we're trying to get over is let's make it the exception. Let's have like rising tides, lift all boats and get to a place where that's the expectation that they get good service because it does drive value for the business, especially if you have quality services or quality products that you're selling. You combine it with quality service. It's a winning combination for people.

Steve:
Well, that's why we like to say on this show, it's a great time to be a CX pro because most companies are now differentiating based on some sort of experience. You know, to create more value, you end up creating more and more complex solutions for customers. So it gets harder to deliver. And then you throw in all the media and, you know, probably when you first started your job, it was almost all on the phone. And, you know, now it's chat and people I mean, I'll never forget the first time I walked into a call center one time and they showed me a group that was just responding to social media posts. You know, they were actually doing service on Twitter, which I didn't even know you could do, you know, like ask for customer support through Twitter.

Nathan:
Yep.

Steve:
So, yeah, it keeps getting more complicated. Well, we teased this episode about kind of quantifying the unquantifiable. So talk a little more about how you start to quantify the emotional aspect of a transaction or a relationship with a customer. You know, how do how do you put that data around how people are feeling?

Nathan:
Yeah, you're trying to basically put it into language that the rest of the organization is going to speak in terms of top and bottom line revenue. So how do you connect think we're looking we're on this journey ourselves. Okay, so this is not complete, but in the process it's trying to go deeper with the CSAT scores, consumer satisfaction or Net Promoter Scores or customer effort scores. And then at the same time, we're trying to stay on top of all the research that's out here. Net Promoter is turning into earned growth and trying to measure, you know, what are your true referral rates, what are what are your true word of mouth sales rates and loyalty measures? Because some of the research we're seeing is showing that, you know, first of all, most people don't contact you to begin with. And then if they do and they like your product and they get great service, they're actually worth more to you than somebody who just likes your product and never contacts you. So there is a there is quantifiable research out there on on emotional support. It's just really hard to connect. And this is this is what the industry seems to be up against, is connecting that to top and and bottom line. And so we're going to try to run a number of experiments, whether it's trying to figure out the the click rates online with service and seeing if that's going to lead to sales or not.

Nathan:
But it's yeah, it's that's that's the key is trying to translate this and even if you step back I think like one of the message I would have for people is like what you and I started off doing. We can have this conversation even though we're in the industry, we can do it because we're both consumers. Everybody is a consumer like. Right, Right. And it's and usually if you get into, let's say, a presentation to senior level people, you're leading with slides and charts and data and stuff. Sometimes in the CX industry you can actually lead with a phone call: here, press play, listen to this, and they'll connect emotionally because one, they don't like to hear the frustration that comes off, but it's that goes back to that human to human experience we talked about. So sometimes the anecdotes can drive it. Then you follow up with and this happens this number of times, then you show the data in the charts because they're all we're all consumers. We all know what good and bad service looks like.

Steve:
Yeah, I really like the way you you brought back kind of the qualitative aspect of it or the story or the the real life example that we can all relate to, because I think that does make the numbers jump and, you know, brings context and, and, and that connection to it. So I really like that. Has that helped you capture interest in the CX activities at Delta throughout the organization? I mean, one of the things we talk about all the time on this podcast is that CX is not really a silo. And to be effective, it has to be pervasive in the organization. What's been your experience at getting the rest of the organization to connect into the CX objectives?

Nathan:
Oh yeah. This has been a lot of fun actually, because just like you and I, knowing each other, having a relationship is one of the most, most fun things, just the relationship aspect. So you start going around and talking to people and just bringing them along. One is and this has happened in the industry, hey, you don't want to be a cost center. You want to be a value center, a profit center. So you start trying to move in that direction. Because if it's always about cutting cost, you can keep doing that. But it will be a race to the bottom on your service and you get people to understand that it's doing contact center visits. That's always been huge to actually see it. You said, you know, you remember the first time you saw the social media aspect of things. I remember the first time I visited the contact center. Just wanted we just all wanted to make it better for the people doing the job. It's a hard job and we talk about that. It's difficult. You're taking a call. Hey, my faucet is leaking. What's a faucet do you have that? That's tough. That's a tough, tough job. So how do you make things better for the agents? Um, and then the other thing that really takes off again is the call listening.

Nathan:
And this has been that's some feedback that we got from J.D. Power and Associates. We're very proud of the last two years being back to back customer service excellence program certification with them. And that was feedback that they gave us from a continuous improvement aspect is, Hey, best in class companies are obsessed with listening to calls. And now with the technology, like a lot of us have, where we own the phone systems and it's cloud based, you can just schedule a meeting just like you and I are doing, and you can play those calls in these sessions for people to listen to. And that's that's really impactful. That that gets that gets people engaged. That starts to break down silos because again, people care about the company, they care about the products, they care about the consumers. They hear the problems that they're having. If you back it up with data, this is happening X number of times. It can it can move the needle. And a lot of times we don't understand the true impacts of, you know, maybe what's up on the website or what's on the packaging or what's in the instructions. And that that that's just awesome. And again, people are all they're all employees are all consumers so they they know what what good service and bad service look like.

Steve:
Hey, you mentioned J.D. Power. But I did notice in my research that you've you've won those two awards. What do you attribute that success to? What what was kind of the the virtues that you have put in place that got that recognition going?

Nathan:
Uh, it's, it's the team I work with, actually, and the culture and the company. This team drives me. You think I'm excited and passionate about service? You should meet the people that I work with. They. They set a high standard. Continuous improvement is one of the core values of Delta Faucet Company. It's in the DNA of the company from Alex Manoogian, the founder. It goes all the way up through Masco Corporation, the parent company. So it's not just the values, but there's a whole system that we operate off of. And that was good alignment then with J.D. Power, because that's what they want to see also, is they they have the quantifiable research to say this is this is these are the drivers of of continuous or sorry, consumer satisfaction. And they want to actually see that you have processes in place where there's feedback loops to and from frontline agents who are handling the contacts of your company. So that, I think, is where where it all came from. The people that are constantly living the continuous improvement value, looking for ways to improve and just just logical common sense we can do better. Doesn't have to be this way. These consumers have our products. They have an issue. Let's let's get it resolved. Let's take care of them. Let's not overthink this based on cost or time of call or some some typical metric which are good and have a place. But just step back for a minute and let's take care of it and get it done.

Announcer:
CX professionals are pretty busy people and it's sometimes difficult to dedicate some time to professional development. Of course, there's The CX Leader Podcast, but sometimes you just need some quick practical advice on how to run your program. Well, we might just have the thing. The CX Leader Quick Tips Minicast. These will be short how-to episodes featuring Walker experts giving practical advice on running your XM program. No need to subscribe to anything new. We'll release them through this feed every couple of weeks. That's The CX Leader Quick Tips Minicast. Watch for the first episode in mid-September.

Steve:
Hey, my guest on the podcast this week is Nathan Bobay. He's the director of consumer service at Delta Faucets. And we've been having a fascinating discussion about customer service and continuous improvement and how our everyday experiences as consumers really help inform us and help us do a better job as CX pros. I appreciate your mention of continuous improvement. That kind of takes me back historically, but I think a lot of the genesis of what we call CX today had its roots in quality improvement and continuous improvement. Deming, Six Sigma and all of those methods and all of those systems had as as part of the foundation, some sort of valid customer inputs. You know, you had to validate whatever your activities were in terms of how it was going to impact the customer. And, you know, to see that manifest itself in this great American company that's been around for so long and still kind of one of the basic tenets that just again, it should reinforce all of us in the profession is, you know, what we're here to do is is a worthy cause. Facts and data do matter as well as the the human to human part. So now that you've built this system, I imagine you're always tweaking on it a little bit and trying to find in the spirit of continuous improvement. So what are, what are some of the things or that you've found over the last few years as you've kind of perfected your system? I don't want any trade secrets or anything that would be competitive information, but just to the extent you can share some of the successes you've had and to maybe inspire some of our listeners.

Nathan:
I think one of the things that works is piloting or experimenting. Every everybody can get on board with the theories that you have when it comes to CX. They're going to say, okay, I get it. I get what you're saying. The next thing they say is, show me. Put it into practice. Well, a lot of times I think the frustration in the industry is we shoulder this burden because we just say yes to the consumer and that just just totally crushes us. So leaders have to come in and say, okay, what can we do in a in a small sample size to prove out whatever you want to do because you want to go asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars for an investment in something that's a that's difficult, that takes time, takes a business case. All good. We need to keep the business case open. That's definitely another thing that J.D. Power has told us is you gotta have that business case ready. CFOs are going to ask for it. But that's that's great feedback. But so what can you do? You know we all we've got budget so what can you operate under under your existing day to day that you can go pilot and then have some sort of data then to go when you make that ask for something more because that's really where the where it takes off.

Nathan:
So one that we did a few years ago was getting into the text messaging service. You know, everybody's texting. So it was it was, again, real easy to say, hey, this is already very natural to do. And we've got thousands of products out there. What model number does a person have? It's difficult to get that if they don't if they haven't kept that paperwork. So we piloted a text, a photo concept. You're on the phone and you we could go ahead and send a text through the CRM system and consumer can respond with a photo of the model that we prove that out through this, through this concept, we could show the show the value, the satisfaction. And then we did the same thing with a one way video feed, which is even more powerful. Now. You can take your smartphone, you can get underneath the the sink and show the the pipes if needed or, you know, again, show on top, show the model model on top because that then can lead to first contact resolution. We know that drives satisfaction. We know it drives cost savings win for everybody.

Steve:
That's a great example of the way you you know, you have a kind of a baseline measurement, but now you're trying to take it to the next level and that's where you create those incremental improvements that every once in a while results in a breakthrough, which I'm sure the video use of the video and the pictures are something that some of our other listeners probably have taken advantage of, but many have not, so yeah.

Nathan:
Yeah, yeah. It gets people's attention. And again, you show that internally if you're like, Wow, because it makes sense, it's logical. They're all consumers, they get it. And then actually what it unlocks is we'll have people sending us examples of good service from other companies. Again, rising tides lift all boats. I interact with XYZ company. Here's how they took care of me. Or people are screenshotting stuff all the time. That's awesome. And the world is so small with service to you can find everybody on LinkedIn. It's not that hard. If I wanted to reach out and and contact somebody and a lot of times they're all service people are great people. They're willing to share their story and we'll share ours right back And. Again, because all you're a consumer, you're comparing us to everybody else. Companies don't necessarily think this way. And this is this is where we have to. Service people have to help break this down. Online retailer is going to get compared to a faucet company, going to get compared to airline tickets, getting compared to a coffee shop, grocery store, shoe company on and on.

Steve:
Amazon.

Nathan:
Exactly. I'm not naming them, but yes. Yeah. And and thanks to them for shipping fast because then the next one down the line, the next retailer had to ship fast pushes down to the manufacturer to ship fast. You can cut cost all day long and ship slow. But we know that there's a dissatisfaction there.

Steve:
Not anymore. You can't. You know, we have a pretty good B2B practice, too. We do a lot of B2C, but that's one of the things that we identified probably more than a decade ago, is that, you know, even B2B expectations are being shaped by people's consumer experiences. Like I think ten years ago you could use Uber. I think Uber is about ten years old where you could actually see where that car was on your phone. But there's still some delivery operators that don't even provide that. So like, if I can see where my car is, why can't I see where my shipment is? You know? And, you know, that's that creative destruction that we we talk about. It's why why we're never really done. And we're only as good as kind of what we can control. And and but I love your idea of of how your environment and culture brings in other ideas. That's I think that's a real sign of health for you.

Nathan:
And that and again, I'll harp on the relationship aspect and the getting outside the walls of this company to learn from other people. Again, you're doing this podcast, you're you're learning a ton. You're helping a ton out with the industry because everybody's doing a lot of the same things. And again, we're all taking care of the same same people and now, now all raising their expectations against us. So that's a good thing and let's have fun with it.

Steve:
Nathan, we've reached that point in the podcast where I ask every guest to give us some take home value. It's kind of our hook in the show. We it can be something new or it can be a reinforcement of something you've already talked about. But the concept here is that we give the listener something that's very practical that they can take back and apply to their their own program very, very quickly. So, Nathan Bobay, what is your take home value for this week's podcast?

Nathan:
Don't overthink it. Everybody's a consumer. Everybody knows what good and bad service look like. So just get get them in that emotional mind frame. Ask them, Has anybody here ever had a bad service experience and see the hands go up and let them share and then get the emotions going and then you can flip it and say, same thing about good. Let them tell that story. That'll get them in the mind frame of what concept? Hey, this is where this is what we're not. This is who we want to be. Who we don't want to be. Agreed. Okay. And move the move the conversation forward. There. You don't. You don't have to overthink it. Everybody is a consumer.

Steve:
Nathan Bobay is the director of consumer service at Delta Faucets. Really appreciate you being a guest on the podcast. Thanks, Nathan.

Nathan:
Hey, thanks for having me Steve.

Steve:
Hey, and if anybody would want to continue the conversation, I think you're findable on LinkedIn, correct?

Nathan:
Yeah. Reach me on LinkedIn.

Steve:
Hey, and if you want to talk about anything you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your business's customer experience, feel free to email us at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Remember to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating through your podcast service and give us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our Listener. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to subscribe to the show, find all our previous episodes, podcast series and a link to our blog which we update regularly and contact information. You can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader, so keep on doing it. Don't over complicate it. Ask your consumers what good service looks like and what it doesn't, and then take the next step. Look forward to hearing back from you on how you're doing with that. And we'll see you back here again next week.

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