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Steve:
Customer behaviors went through some impressive changes over the last year and a half, and that made customer experience more important than ever.

Jay:
But if I say to a business, you should have a better customer experience, guess what happens? They nod and smile and nothing happens. No one ever says to me, no Jay, you're wrong. The customer experience isn't important. We shouldn't have a good customer experience. Nobody ever says that. They all agree and nothing changes. And it's because if you say to somebody, make your CX better, they don't know what to do.

Steve:
Why we need to stop thinking of CX as an attitude and start making it actionable on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at Walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast and thank you for listening. On The CX Leader Podcast we explore topics and themes to help leaders like you leverage all the benefits of your customer experience and help your customers and prospects want to do more business with you. It's been said a countless number of times on this show: customer experience has never been more important for companies today. The pandemic has changed not only how businesses operate, but how consumers are making purchasing decisions. This has provided CX programs an opportunity to make a huge impact on how companies navigate their way through new territories as we start to see the world emerge from the pandemic. Well, I'm really excited about my guest today who's no stranger to The CX Leader Podcast. It's been a while since we last had him on the show but Jay Baer is a best selling author on customer experience, advisor, fellow podcaster, keynoter, and he's also the founder of Convince and Convert, a digital strategy consulting firm. And he's just a really great fun guy to have on the podcast. Jay, thank you for being a guest on The CX Leader Podcast.

Jay:
Fantastic to see you, my friend. I'm glad you don't know what we're talking about because I don't know either, but it's going to be amazing. Always good to be with you and your community, my friend.

Steve:
You know, I think we kind of just broadly said, you know, how can CX make a difference? And I know you've been doing a lot of things out there. So what's on the mind of Jay Baer today and what is kind of the state of CX today and how are we doing?

Jay:
It's it's more important than ever. And I literally mean that, so a lot of interesting stats since the pandemic, Steve, but one of the things that I find fascinating is some 6 in 10 American consumers made a purchase from a business for the very first time during the pandemic. So they'd never transacted with that business before. 6 and 10 that may have happened to you or listeners like I've got a different chiropractor now about of restaurants, some other different vendors, either different yard guy like you just made some changes. Right. 89% of Americans plan to stay with this new provider. So it's not like a one time dalliance. It's, you know what actually like these folks better. Now you might suspect and a reasonable person might assume that these shifts in market share, which have been truly unprecedented, were driven by price. A lot of people had, you know, manifest economic difficulties during the pandemic. And you might think, oh, well, I can save money if I switch from brand X to brand Y or from vendor X to vendor Y. Actually, that's not the case at all. In fact, twenty eight percent of consumers say that price matters less in the pandemic. Well, obviously, if something matters less, something else must matter more, something else must be driving these big market share changes. And what is that thing? It's customer experience, Steve! It is customer experience because in a world where everything is hard and that is the world we are coming out of, everything is hard in that world. Nobody wants any extra hassles, period. So the brands and organizations, large, small, medium, who can be easier to transact with are reaping the rewards and those who remain difficult to transact with are now at a huge operational strategic advantage, which is even more of a disadvantage than it was pre pandemic, because nobody wants to deal with it anymore. They're up to here. Every consumer is up to their eyeballs in hassle and drama and problems. And and somebody's not calling them back or not personalizing their email or whatever their CX transgression might be. People have had enough. Right. And now they're voting with their dollars.

Steve:
Those are some fascinating stats, Jay. I just jotted them down. But you said six in 10 people did business with somebody new.

Jay:
Yep.

Steve:
Eighty nine percent of those folks intend to stay with their new provider.

Jay:
Yep.

Steve:
And only twenty eight percent said it was price driven.

Jay:
That's right. Yep. So with my other two, my other favorite stats, the pandemic, Steve. Thirty four percent increase in the divorce rate since nobody is traveling for business and a 70 seven zero percent increase in slipper sales, all of which makes a lot of sense, actually.

Steve:
A couple of weeks ago, we found out that pet adoption soared.

Jay:
Yes.

Steve:
And now there's a shortage of veterinary services.

Jay:
Every every consequence has an equal consequence. Right. You can't buy a guitar either because everybody's had to learn guitar. You can't buy a boat, can't buy an RV.

Steve:
Yeah, I don't think you can buy a bicycle.

Well, it's funny, you know any of that. It's funny. I actually did a lot of virtual keynotes during the pandemic and did one for the RV Association, one for the boat association. I'm actually leaving in a few days to go to Florida to keynote a big in-person industry expo for the fishing industry. And it's really hard to do a keynote on customer experience when they're coming off the best year ever. And they sold more fishing rods, lures, vests, hats, bait than ever before. But my message is, well, guess what happens in that scenario? You have this giant influx of new participants in the sport. And if their experience isn't good because you're too busy to help them when they're in your store or you're too busy to answer their email, or you don't produce enough informational content on your YouTube channel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. All this is going to be in these kind of winning industries is a historical blip on the radar, right? That a year or two years down the road, they're going to be back to where they were because it's not as if the people who lost in in in the pandemic. Right. People who so I don't know, let's say ties. Right. Flipper sales up 70 percent. I suspect men's necktie sales down a fair bit. I don't know the number, but I'm going to guess it's a lot. It's not as if the necktie industry is like, well, I guess that sucks for us. We're out of business. No, they're going to come fighting back with everything they've got. And so just because you won in the pandemic doesn't mean you have won. It means you won for a year. And people who pat themselves on the back about that and don't make corresponding customer experience improvements are going to lose all of those new customers.

Steve:
Yeah. So I think what you're highlighting there is there's a difference between being lucky and being good.

Jay:
Well, you can be both, but yes, there's definitely a difference.

Steve:
You know, some of the things you you mentioned earlier, I mean, these these these huge changes in marketplace behavior, it really is the culmination of the experience economy. Right? I mean, consumers finally figured out that price is just one part of the equation. And it really is the total cost of ownership, which is what we've been talking about for decades.

Jay:
And I feel like the pandemic gave them sort of a pretext for making a decision. Right, for for making a shift. Like there's a lot of things like, you know what, I will that happy that yard guy anyway. But you know what? If divorce rates are up thirty four percent, I'm ripping off the Band-Aid, man. I'm making all I'm making wholesale changes. I mean, twenty – the number is. Twenty two percent of Americans either moved during the pandemic or know somebody who did. That's crazy. More than one in five people either moved or know somebody who did. So all bets are off like this idea that, well, I've always been brand loyal, so I'll still be brand loyal. No, the pandemic took all of those loyalties and put them in a snow globe and shook them up. Right. And so when I say that customer experience is more important than ever, that's not just me as a CX professional kind of sit around a campfire and singing Kumbayah with Steve. Right. This is empirically, mathematically true. This is that time we've all been waiting for that business is wake up and say, oh, this isn't nice to have. This is existential to the success of our business. Now, it sucks that it required a global pandemic to make everybody pay attention to CX. But, hey, whatever it takes,

Steve:
I'm sitting here thinking, as you were talking, you know, there are also some challenges, particularly like in supply chain and. Just logistics and for some of the folks that make, you know, manufacture and had kind of these global supply chains where they couldn't get all the parts, how does that figure into some of these equations that you're talking about?

Jay:
It's funny you mention that. So, of course, that is true, right? There are there are real world circumstances that have made customer experience harder, in some cases, supply chain availability, labor shortages, et cetera, et cetera. But one of the other really interesting stats, and this one is from the podium, is that 86 percent of consumers. Want businesses to be more convenient now than they were before the pandemic. So this idea that your customers are going to give you a widespread pandemic pass on CX is not true. Their sympathy exists, but not at a very high level. I just had literally yesterday I bought a couch and they're shipping it to me in theory. And this couch is months overdue. And now they're like, well, you know, pandemic and we can't put the couch on the truck. And I'm like. I you know that, I mean, I get it, but it's a couch and it's been a year and a half, like at what point is the expiration date on excuses and and what's what I find really fascinating, and I don't have data on this, but anecdotally, like, if you want to use supply chain or any sort of pandemic related disruption as a rationale for less than optimal CX like I'm cool with that at some level, but you have to explain it now. So what I see in all these e-commerce sites, you probably see it, too, Steve, is literally just to pull down our window shade that says due to COVID, it's going to take two years to get a sweater. And I'm like, bro, come on, man. Like, you can't it just feels like an excuse at this point. But if you actually, like, create a little piece of content that says, let me explain to you what the problem is and let me sort of illustrate this to you, then maybe I have some sympathy, but this idea that just at face value, everybody is like, yeah, it's OK, you can treat me poorly because, you know, pandemic, I think we're running out of real estate on that excuse.

Steve:
And, you know, you've always been kind of a I don't want to put words on your mouth here, but you've been kind of a word of mouth guy historically. And I think your firm Convince and Convert is talks about the power of that. But I guess I would assume that some of these developments only reinforce the importance of of that as a as a medium.

Jay:
Well, what's fascinating about that is, is what the pandemic has done in this. Just sort of a one of those sort of unintended consequences is it's given everybody a whole new array of word of mouth topics. Right. So so, you know, in the middle of a pandemic, I had tons of conversations with my friends about, well, what is it like to eat at this restaurant in town? Because, you know, are the servers wearing master the do the do the patrons have to wear masks, like how quote unquote safe is it at this restaurant or or the Kroger near our house or whatever the circumstance are like this whole new and now it's what can they actually get it to you on time or how is the service because they don't have enough employees or whatever the pandemic related circumstances are. You know, I never had a conversation about how safe is our restaurant. You know, before the pandemic, it wasn't even it wasn't even a topic of conversation you never even bother having. And what's interesting about that is the number on this I know is 70 percent of consumers say that reviews are more important to them now than ever before. And of course, it is because in a world where everything's been shaken up and that metaphorical snow globe, nobody has enough risk tolerance or enough money to just be spending money without checking a review. And what's a review? It's word of mouth of a shelf life.

Steve:
Yeah, I never really thought about that, but I'm writing that one down because that is a review is word of mouth with a shelf life.

Jay:
And that's why nobody writes a three star review. Right. If you look at the actual data, there's so few three star reviews because. Right. Why would you write one? Like, you know what? It was pretty much exactly what I thought. Three stars. Just nobody. There's just you're not compelled to warn somebody or give them the, you know, the inside tip. Right. So it's just, you know, now there's all these different variables at play, whether it's safety or cost or convenience or anything else. And you're seeing more reviews written than ever before. People refer to them more than ever before. It's a really fascinating time for for folks like us. And again, I'm terribly sorry that that a global pandemic was the cause of this newfound interest. But as a business researcher and consultant, it certainly provides a lot of fodder for interesting stuff.

Steve:
So, you know, our audiences, CX pros, these are people that are sort of charged with trying to make their organizations better through better focus on the customer. What would you say are some of the implications of all this data that you've shared with us today? Like what does this mean to the CX pro inside of an organization that's trying to drive their culture?

Jay:
Well, I think it means that we've we've got to stop talking about CX as an attitudinal change and and make it an actionable behavioral change. Right. I still feel like in a lot of organizations, the role of the CX professional is is making sure that other professionals, quote unquote, focus on the customer. And to me, that's largely an attitudinal concern. We have to actually what I keep telling my clients now is we're at the point where you have to stop, start or change some specific things in your business. You've got to stop, start or change some specific things in your business. Because the biggest problem with CX. Well, OK, here's a quick rant here. Here's a problem. The customer experience, it doesn't actually exist, OK? It it is fake. Customer experience, and I'm throwing up my air quotes right now, customer experience is just a nickname that we've all chosen to adopt that actually means in the real world dozens or hundreds of decisions that you make in your business every day. Customer experience is not a thing. It is quite literally the combination of all the things right. So to treat it holistically is to actually do it a disservice and we treat it holistically because it's easier to keep it in your head like that. But if I say to a business, you should have a better customer experience, guess what happens to you? And I've been doing this for 30 years. They nod and smile. And nothing happens. No one ever says to me, no, Jay, you're wrong, the customer experience isn't important. We shouldn't have a good customer experience. Nobody ever says that they all agree and nothing changes. And it's because if you say to somebody, make your CX better, they don't know what to do. It's too big. So here's the analogy I use. You ever get one of those like six, seven feet sandwiches from Subway or Blimpy or whatever, like your local deli, maybe you might call it a bomber or a hoagie or a grinder wherever you live. And they bring it on wood. Right. They bring it on a two by four. Now, the only way you and your friends can eat a sandwich like that is because the sandwich place cuts it into four inch slices. If they didn't cut it, there's no way you could eat that sandwich. You can't get one endive, Steve. And seven feet away is me on the other end. And we're going to start from the ends and eat to the middle like Lady and the Tramp style. You can't do that. Doesn't work. So customer experience works the exact same way. You've got to cut it into four inch slices. So it's not about attitude, it's about actions. You've got to pick a few things like just pick a few things and stop, start or change some of those things. Right. It's got to be really specific. But the problem is so often it becomes generalities and that makes you feel good, but it doesn't make any money.

Steve:
My guest on the podcast this week is Jay Baer, he's always bringing great ideas and today kind of the overall topic is how CX can make a difference. And he's brought some really interesting tidbits and some of his recent research on just what what the pandemic has done to the expectations of the customer experience. And we're talking about how that's going to change and forever change what we do as CX pros. And we've sort of dialed in on. And I'm going to paraphrase because I think I think I did a podcast with someone just a few weeks ago and their tip was, we need less theory and more action. And I think that's what I just heard you say.

Jay:
Agreed. Absolutely right. Like. Treating CX as an intellectual exercise or attitude exercises is fun for sure and isn't without its merits, but ultimately you have to actually do something different. So attitude precedes action, but attitude without action is is just, you know, it's it's like holding hands, right? It's like, OK, well, great. But what comes after that? And and what's challenging is that the attitudinal side of CX sometimes isn't noticed by the customers, the people you're supposed to be helping because it never sort of leaches into the operational layer. So what what what I've been telling people is this year can because of this crazy, unprecedented shift in market share where loyalty is out the window. Right. People are reassessing every business relationship and every personal relationship they have in their lives. This can be the best year you've ever had in your business. So I don't care what business you're in, this can be your best year. But one of the ways to make that happen is to just pick. Three things in the operation of your business that you're going to really focus on, right, and just do it in 90 days, right. So instead of thinking big about CX, what I keep telling people is this is the year to think small.

Steve:
Yeah. So if I'm a pro and and I'm listening to this and I say, yeah, I know I need to do that, but where would you point somebody to start? What would be kind of the sum of the first things you'd go to?

Jay:
I'm glad you asked three things. Yeah. So I actually did a huge amount of research about this during the pandemic and looked at tons of companies and our clients and a lot of other folks. And what we discovered my strategy XM myself, is that there are, of course, dozens or hundreds of things you could do differently in your business. But there's really only three things that customers care about disproportionately. And this is basically true regardless of what kind of business you are. They want you to be quick. They want you to be clear. And they want you to be kind, quick, clear and kind. So the advice I've been giving people is how can you come up with three ways, just three ways to be 15 percent more quick? In 90 days, three ways that you can be 15 percent more clear, three ways that you can be 15 percent more kind, these just these these these small but important improvements, you start stacking those up like cordwood and all of a sudden you've got a real transformation.

Steve:
And what about the person that's dealing with a complex organization where there's multiple silos or departments or business units? Does that play into that? Should they pick a champion or should they look for somebody that's maybe already feeling like they want to do something there?

Jay:
Good question. You know, I actually feel like I've never been asked this question or thought about it this way. This is dangerous to say this on a live podcast on CX professionals. I actually feel like finding a champion is overrated. I feel like you're better off finding somebody who can make a change, because if that champion, despite their manifest enthusiasm, isn't empowered or able to effectuate change, then all you've done is added a seat to the attitudinal buzz. Right. So I'd rather I'd rather find somebody who is empowered to actually do something different and convince them that something different needs to be done, then go the other way and find somebody who's predisposed to making a change but is unable to. Does that make sense?

Steve:
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. You know, we talk a lot on this show about, you know, reaching out to the operating managers or the people that actually do have the formal authority because a lot of CX pros don't. They have to kind of work their way through the the hierarchical organization to make some change or to or to build that kind of framework. But I liked your answer. I think that you're right that the champion probably is a little bit overrated. What about research that might inform where some of those key improvement points might be like? So voice of the customer surveys or pain points or some of that.

Jay:
So, yeah, no question. I think if you design VOC work appropriately, most of the things that that you can use in your quick, clear, kind endeavors will reveal themselves. It's pretty rare that something that's truly a problem doesn't get spit back to you if you ask the right question of the right people. That doesn't mean you don't have other challenges. But but the ones that are really important will typically reveal themselves over time.

Steve:
Jay, I have reached that point in this podcast where I ask all of my guests for their best tip. We call it take home value, but the concept here is to call to action for our CX pros. In other words, what is your best advice today that these CX pros listening to the podcast today can take back to the office or back to their job and make improvements starting today or tomorrow or next Monday?

Jay:
Right on. Thank you again, Steve, for having me on the show. Two things. One, a brand new newsletter I'm sending out every two weeks. It's called The Baer Facts. I would love for you to subscribe thebaerfacts.com. Baer. Just a quick email every couple of weeks, but I lead off every email with a customer experience story that has happened to me in my own life in the in the interceding two weeks. And I tend to attract drama and challenges, including my daughter losing her passport three days before an international trip recently. So I got nothing but stories in the email. I would love to have your attention that the bare facts dot com. My tip is this. There's again, so many things that you could do differently in the CX of your organization, but at some level you have to concretely stop, start or change some things. I find it very, very useful to create a rank ordered list and keep it on your desk all the time. So literally write down a list of the twenty five things that you would want to change specifically. Not not generalities like deliver faster. I mean specifics. Twenty five things in the order of the magnitude that you think they will have on the overall CX, and if you keep that list and you and you go to the trouble of writing it down and you keep it within your line of sight all the time, it will really spur you on to make sure that your CX advice and your CX program is always grounded in specific changes, not attitudinal generalizations.

Steve:
Yeah, that would seem to be kind of consistent with a goal mentality, which we know, you know, it not only helps you in your business, but your personal endeavors as well, so…

Jay:
And I think it helps. I think it helps. You mentioned sort of executive teams and complex organizations. I think it really helps make in business cases, too, in those kind of circumstances. Right. Where, you know, when you were talking to execs, you know, saying, hey, let's make CX better. Like, yeah, I mean, I got a lot of other challenges, but it's like, hey, here's a very specific thing. And if we do this, then this outcome is going to occur. It's just easier to get support for that kind of thing.

Steve:
Yeah. And I kind of like it. It's it ties back with your one principle of being clear. So, you know, if you write down your priorities in a very kind of specific way, then you have you have increased clarity right there.

Jay:
Friends, your priorities should be to listen to every episode of this show. If you do not subscribe or follow the podcast, make sure you do that and tell your friends as well. Steve and his team are the best.

Steve:
Hey, Jay, it's always a pleasure to have you on. You mentioned The Baer Facts and I would to advise all of our listeners to subscribe to that and also give us give us your website, because I know get books out there and you get a ton of resources and you

Jay:
You bet. convinceandconvert.com as our main site with thousands of articles. My site is jaybaer.com. My podcast is Social Pros, all about enterprise, social media management, social media, marketing, social media care and social media. A voice of the customer. If you're not the social media person in your team, let your social media people know it's called Social Pros.

Steve:
Hey, Jay Baer is the founder of Convince and Convert and a best selling author podcaster, fellow leader of the industry and thought leader. And, Jay, just again, thanks again for being a another coming on one more time

Jay:
To any time I do it every week, you just let me know.

Steve:
All right. And if you want to talk about anything you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your business's customer experience, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Be sure to check out our website, cxleaderpodcast.com, to subscribe to the show, find all of our previous episodes. We organize them by topic and theme and speaker. And we also have our contact information on there in a place where you can give us some feedback, tell us how we're doing, or suggest the idea for a future podcast. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at Walkerinfo.com. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again next time.

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