The CX Leader Podcast: "Thank You for Your Service": Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

The CX Leader Podcast: "Thank You for Your Service": this wav audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Steve:
Military service often turns people into great leaders. So we thought we'd ask a veteran to give us their perspective on being a leader in customer experience.

Michelle:
You know, folks in the military were often adventurous or like, yeah, let's jump out of planes and repel and do crazy things, even though it makes us uncomfortable. And so that churn, that discomfort, that feeling of uncertainty is where I think a lot of us CX professionals thrive.

Steve:
A discussion about military life and how it translates to working in customer experience on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast and thank you for listening. It's never been a better time to be a CX leader. And this podcast explores topics and themes to help leaders like you leverage all the benefits of your customer experience and help your customers and prospects want to do more business with you. We focus quite a bit of our time in this show to the execution of customer experience, including strategy, best practices, technology, etc. on and on. But this is The CX Leader Podcast, so we do like to bring the topic back around the leadership skills and we even have an 11 episode series on the best traits of effective CX leaders. You can listen to those episodes on our website, cxleaderpodcast.com. One of the best institutions throughout all of history to learn leadership skills has always been the military. Veterans often become some of the best business leaders in their fields. So how does military life translate into becoming an effective CX leader? Well, it just so happens that one of my friends and colleagues here at Walker can help give us some perspective on that. Michelle Buretta is a vice president and CX strategic advisor here at Walker, and she is also a veteran of the United States Army. Michelle, welcome to this special Memorial Day Week episode of The CX Leader Podcast. And first of all, thank you for your service and also thank you for being willing to be a guest on the show.

Michelle:
Thank you, Steve. It's a pleasure to be here.

Steve:
Well, I think I was talking to you off the air a little bit. We want to talk about the military experience. And I personally have such admiration for people who serve our country and serve in the military. And I actually got to hear your story a few weeks ago in an internal meeting, and it's really inspiring. But before we get into that, why don't you just tell our folks who don't know as much about you as I do a little bit about your background professionally and how you came to be a CX pro?

Michelle:
Yeah, absolutely. Like most of us CX leaders, we sort of fell into this field accidentally. Right. Many of us have a real desire to serve others and to be excited about creating great experiences. And so I started in higher education. I worked for ten years as both a student and a professional at N.C. State University. And so I did academic counseling, teaching, researching all all kinds of things. I started my PhD in 2009, and a few years later I kind of came to a crossroads personally. And so I decided to take a leave of absence from the program and really didn't know what to do at that moment. But I knew I had to work. The bills kept coming in, and so I joined an insurance company as a technical writer. And when a close friend and manager of mine said, you know what, you're a sociologist, why don't you come and do some market research? And so it opened up a whole new world for me, which started there and then led into customer insights and all the things CX I got really involved in the CXPA around 2013 or so, and both locally and nationally got my CCXP and worked at a number of different industries after insurance. So financial services, biotech technology, and now I'm here at Walker getting to take all of those skills and experiences both academically and in different business verticals, to help other clients succeed in the world of CX.

Steve:
Well, that's a great background. And, you know, you're somewhat similar to a lot of our really successful people that I've seen throughout my career. People that came up through the social sciences sort of had an interest in why people behave the way they do and found a good way to apply that, or at least a lucrative way to apply that. So congratulations on your career journey. Before we talk about leadership in the military, if you're willing, just give us the short version of your story about how you ended up in the Army. Because, again, I think it's an inspiring story and one that our listeners would really enjoy.

Michelle:
Absolutely. Yeah, I have family members that were in the military, but I never really thought it was going to be part of my journey. I went to college in 1998, a few hours from my hometown in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. And so I was very eager to get out and see the world and go to school and all those things, but very quickly realized how expensive college was. And my family was a very much a working class family and had to figure out a way to pay for school. So I came across an ROTC class at the University of Wisconsin, Stevens Point, and they said, Well, you're a former athlete. Why not join the military? You get to climb ropes and shoot guns. And, you know, you can take these classes and and then join the National Guard and we pay for school and you'll get to see the world and all these great things that recruiters have in their brief case of recruiting and selling. So I thought, why not? My parents are like, What are you doing? And I said, Well, this is a great opportunity for me to take off some financial burden as well as try, you know, just to really see all the things that I didn't get to as a growing up, I should say. So I went to basic training in 99. All was well in the Wisconsin Army National Guard. I drove trucks out of the Oshkosh unit, the 11/57 Transportation Company, and it was going along very smoothly until 9-11.

Steve:
Until 9-11.

Michelle:
Until. And so those of you who are old enough to remember on The CX Leader Podcast 9-11 really was a turning point. And, you know…

Steve:
Recruiters didn't tell you about that one, but…

Michelle:
They did not. I joined very much in peacetime. If you remember, 98, there was not much going on, no bases were closing, there was downsizing, all those sorts of things. And so not long after 9-11, I was asked to leave my senior year of college and all 150 of us went down to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. So that is where I served for just over a year. And, you know, I really was fortunate. There were times where we thought we were going to go to Iraq after the war had kicked off. And I am thankful every day of my life that I got to serve stateside. I worked as in a civilian term, like a chief of staff in a brigade unit for the commander and first sergeant. So really had an experience that was life changing for me. A lot of responsibility at the age of 22, both for people and for processes. And just I felt, although I although I did not see combat in the real sense, being part of that experience was extremely life changing and humbling. And I am grateful every day that I came out of that in one piece. After that experience, I had thought I would have a career in the Army. But that year, not just that you're all of it sort of just changed my perspective a little bit and I knew I had to change directions.

Steve:
Well, again, since I heard your story, the first time I actually traveled out to Colorado Springs for a business meeting and on my flight was a group coming back from Qatar. And they were coming back to there's a big fort there, I think. And there were probably 50 army men and women that were coming home for the first time in almost a year. And I had checked my golf club, so I was at baggage claim and just watching the reunions was pretty special.

Michelle:
Yeah…

Steve:
Pretty cool.

Michelle:
Yeah. That gets me teared up every time between the seeing those reunions the goodbyes and the reunions are are very, very special because you realize the sacrifice not only for the individuals that are serving, but the ones that they leave behind. And so it is a it is hard not to get choked up when you see a live or even on a commercial to not feel a real sense of of gratitude.

Steve:
Yeah. And again, I appreciate you telling your story, because this has been happening for generations and not just only in the United States, but through all of civilization over history that, you know, military service was was always sort of a pathway to a better a better career, better life, better training, etc.. So let's let's start to talk a little more about how it applies to CX. And, and how do you feel like I remember you telling me, like when you got shipped off to Fort Bragg, you're like, hey, all my friends are partying at Stevens Point and you know, I'm I'm in go into basic training and yet it had a profound experience on you, didn't it now.

Michelle:
Absolutely. You know, you always have to put in the perspective. That was over 20 years ago for me, 20 plus if I'm dating myself. And at the time when you're young, your priorities are fun and friends. And so to to take that from you and put you in a situation that is extremely foreign and difficult and every second of your day is is dictated by someone else was a real challenge. And, you know, so so you have that feeling. The flip side of that is when I went to basic training, it did not take very long at all for me to have this real moment of appreciation and humility, because the military, particularly on the enlisted side, is about opportunity and possibility. And sometimes it's the last resort.

Steve:
Yeah.

Michelle:
So I was around folks who came from very difficult upbringings, maybe didn't know their parents, maybe their parents were incarcerated, all kinds of stories. And I thought to myself, you know, I used to complain about not having the latest shoe or clothes or a car, but I had to really take a step back and think to myself. I always had two parents and a home and meals and a community that was safe and loving. And so it at 18 years old, I really had a slap in the face, if you will, of we always look at people who have it better. But it was such an opportunity to look at others who didn't start on second base, you know, and had to really to get around the bases was going to take a lot more effort and a lot more discipline and perseverance. And so that has always carried with me because we often get down on ourselves and look at what we don't have. But that really was a game changer for me.

Steve:
No, this is perfect lead in to the leadership, because leadership is all about service and services, about being willing to kind of put yourself in other people's positions. I was just talking to a young person the other day and they were kind of complaining about their their parents and some of the discipline. And I was sort of like listening. And then I said, You know what? I don't really remember what it's like to be 20 years old, but I can tell you that at my age, I'm pretty grateful for some of that discipline, you know, and again, that that is the perspective of being older and being able to look back. But again, I think your story is compelling. So let's talk about CX in particular and what kind of lessons have you drawn from your military experience as as you've become a really accomplished CX pro over the last 12, 13 years?

Michelle:
I think for me, professionals in CX, I think were gregarious, outgoing, fun people. But I think the other piece of this is about selfless service and it's about serving others and looking at it from the perspective of the customer. And so I think that is one of the key traits that we just have. Intuitively, I don't think it can necessarily be taught, it can be mirrored. And but I really I really believe that's one of the things that sets us apart. And I think I think this is true in many helping professions. I was I initially started out as a counselor, so I did counseling and mental health counseling and career counseling. And so I've always wanted to help others. And I believe that by giving to someone else, by being being a person of service was what I was meant to do. And through some of the some of some real tragic times in my life, personally, I have felt that serving others has been what has kept me moving one foot forward a day at a time. And so I think CX really embodies people who want to help, who want to make change. And I think the other piece of this is opportunity. I know folks in the military were often adventurous or like, yeah, let's jump out of planes and repel and do crazy things, even though it makes us uncomfortable. And so that that churn, that discomfort, that that feeling of uncertainty is where I think a lot of us professionals thrive, taking risks that are calculated, sometimes not, and just wanting to move things forward, wanting to push the envelope and see what's possible. I think that looking at my peers, particularly those that have mentored me and are most successful, they're always kind of looking three steps ahead and looking at the as is is now, but where can we go six months to a year from now? And I, I love that spirit of kind of chasing possibility and opportunity and pushing ourselves and then our clients, making them a little bit uncomfortable in a space that's new and better for our customers.

Steve:
Yeah, I love the way you tie that in with the kind of the we represent the customer's perspective within our organization or with the organizations that we're trying to help. That's a really great mindset, I think, for the pro to take now. Now if you weren't in the military and you didn't learn that in the military, how might you pick up on that other than listening to Michelle Buretta on The CX Leader Podcast?

Michelle:
I, I think, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with upbringing, too, and previous experiences. You know, as a young person, I was a Girl Scout and I came from a pretty disciplined upbringing, you know. So but I guess when I think about, you know, for folks listening and for folks kind of looking inward about why am I in this profession? What about this profession brings me joy. Is it because CX is a broad term, right? I love I love research. I love asking questions, customer insights, market research. That is my favorite thing in the whole world, particularly the qualitative side, having conversation, asking probing questions and telling a story about where to go next. Others may find the creative side of the UX, the journey mapping, those softer skills. Others might be more into the communication and the proliferation of CX principles. So I think it's always kind of good to step back and say to yourself, what pieces and parts do I love? And particularly what sorts of activities within this, within this discipline of CX, within this vertical, most resonate with who I am, bringing my authentic self to work every single day. And because because it shows right when you when you see folks doing things that they really enjoy, it's it is obvious to everyone. And so that would be, I guess, the challenge for CX leaders to really identify that. And how do you how do you make your job reflect more of what you love? But at the same token, in terms of pushing yourself and kind of finding yourself in that uncomfortable state, I would also challenge individuals to find those areas you're not so comfortable in and and try to dabble in them a little bit, kind of dip your toe in, pair yourself, find groups or individuals within your organization that do that work that maybe you don't feel as as confident in. And you might find that that challenge actually brings you great joy and maybe not being the smartest one in the room in those moments.

Steve:
Are you planning on attending the Forrester CX North America Conference in Nashville? Well, Walker will be there. Come by our booth and mention that you're a listener of the podcast and you might get a gift. That's the Forrester CX North America conference from June 7th through the 9th in Nashville, Tennessee. We hope to see you there.

Steve:
Hey. My guest on the podcast this week is my friend and colleague Michelle Buretta. She's a vice president and CX strategic advisor here at Walker. And Michelle is also a veteran of the United States Army and has a great story to tell. And we've been talking about how her military background and experience has influenced her as a CX leader and a business person. So I'll put you on the spot here. So you say you really like the research side of it, that asking questions, new learnings, finding new insights, where do you find you have to stretch yourself or have to work to stretch yourself?

Michelle:
I find the hardest part for me as a practitioner, as a consultant, is the organizational buy in. Sometimes it's just this emotional thing, like your brand is about serving the customers, so you have to reflect that. And when I see this done really well, I'm always in awe of it because it is both a it's a it's an art and a science. And as CX leaders, we all think like, well, who wouldn't want to help the customer? Who wouldn't want to invest? Like, this is going to be difficult, but not when you put yourself in the shoes of those within the organization who have pressures of productivity or cost constraints, or this is the way we've done it forever and ever and ever. I'm not throwing away my typewriter. Right. I mean, all jokes aside, it's it can be a really big lift for some organizations. And so I think that is that is something that always takes some finesse. And, you know, you never know sometimes which of which of those nuggets they're going to bite on. Is it the quantitative of the qualitative? Is it just the emotional appeal of being customer centric?

Steve:
Got to adapt to the environment, right?

Michelle:
Yeah, exactly.

Steve:
So let's talk a little bit more about your work today and what you do. And I get the pleasure of working with you, but how does some of this experience translate into how you work with your clients and also mentor younger people in the organization to.

Michelle:
Yeah, I mean, I'm the oldest of three, so I think my brothers would tell you that I've always been bossy, but I like to say organized and…

Steve:
There's a rhyme and reason to birth. Order is the oldest…

Michelle:
I know…

Steve:
…we got more attention.

Michelle:
Absolutely.

Steve:
But we also were forced into responsibility earlier, too.

Michelle:
Exactly. Exactly. You're exactly right. And the thing is and I truly believe in that and the truth is, is we are often think like first born folks, we come into this with sort of this like take charge. We're going to just figure this out, all that kind of stuff. But really, in terms of the work today, I think it is really just about finding that balance, like knowing leadership to me is always been knowing when to sort of step up and say, All right, guys, we need some structure, we need some we need real leadership in a very intentional and obvious way. And other times being a leader is just stepping back and letting others take the reins or letting folks who are more junior get their chance. And so giving confidence to those who are coming up through the ranks is super important to me, as well as just knowing when to to step back and when to sort of push forward and lean into the situation. And I would say lastly, oftentimes there is a misconception that individuals in the military are very driven by order and structure and task oriented, and that there is a real absence of personality and humanity in the military. But I think what folks don't realize sometimes is that when you're when you're in the military, particularly active duty, your entire life is the military. You are a soldier first. If you make a mistake, that's you know, you're think of in civilian terms, your boss would know. Right, whether it's financially or in trouble with the law, like your entire life is enmeshed and immersed into the military, which is a little can feel a little strange for folks who have never experienced that sort of lifestyle. And I bring that up very specifically because there is also a real humanity.

Michelle:
There's also a real sense of your leadership knowing their soldiers because you have to build that trust.

Steve:
Yeah.

Michelle:
And CX in consulting on the client side, consultant side, no one is going to be in battle per se. It's not that serious. But I think the tenets of what's important trust, accountability, honoring your word, showing up and treating people with kindness and giving them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that there could be a whole mess of things they're dealing with in their personal life. That is something to me that is really important and is sort of that piece of intuitive leadership that often goes missing when you take formal leadership courses and classes in the books that say These are the seven steps to being a good executive, and all of that. If you get to know the people you work with and particularly as a leader the folks that you are been entrusted to lead. That is an honor and a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. And sometimes what I've seen leaders in the past have have made it more about themselves, the position, ability or the power that you get. But the real power is empowering the folks that report to you and the folks that you mentor in cases if you don't have direct reports and by showing them, setting a good example, encouraging folks to take risks. And it is it is a it's a real gift and it's a real honor. And that leadership really becomes more of a you become more of a figurehead than the boss, right. Or the person that's telling folks what to do. And I think that's the one thing I would say from the military that's we salute folks, but the respect is is something that's even greater.

Steve:
What's your take on kind of where we're at as a profession and and your background and are we making progress? What other work do we need to do to really embed this kind of influence and competency into our own profession?

Michelle:
I think the sky's the limit for CX and I think when we look back ten years ago, it was still a little bit of a nice to have. It was it was a catch phrase. It was, what is this really? And now I truly believe that organizations that haven't caught on, that haven't began to haven't begun to invest in a real way in people, processes and technology to to improve the experiences of their customers are going to be around. And and I think there's a there's a real call to action across all verticals, across all businesses. I think one of the most interesting things is in health care. And my my mom has been a nurse for 30 plus years. And just to see the transition of that sense of empowering the patients and to ask for feedback, when in the past it was often, you know, patients were at the mercy of the doctor's schedule or you didn't challenge or ask questions. And so there's really there's really been a turning point in an industry that's remained stagnant for so long. So that's one example. And so I don't think that there's anything off limits from here. I think the best thing we can do as professionals is continue to ask those questions and challenge organizations regardless of the industry or the vertical that they're in, to really put the customer at the center of everything they do. Because at the end of the day, the world, the world of business and just the world at large is so volatile. We're in a we're sitting here two years later, two plus years later, and the world has changed so much. And so I think while COVID and all of the things associated with that was really difficult for so many people, I think it also brought to light so many areas of opportunity for both employee experience and for customer experience that are. I think we're just getting started in there.

Steve:
Yeah, no, I think it's one of the things we say on the podcast is it's a great time to be a CX leader, you know, if they ever needed us and they need us now.

Michelle:
That's right.

Steve:
Michelle. We've reached that point in the podcast where I ask all of our guests and I'm sorry I can't make an exception even for our veterans. You have to come up with take home value. And I guess in this case we'll call it a call to action for something that they can go back, take and apply it where they work. And so what's your best trick? What's your take home value that our listeners can go and improve their programs or how they're being effective today?

Michelle:
I'm going to take a bit of a humanistic approach here, and there's a lot of amazing things we can do as CX professionals very tactically and strategically. But I think we're all human beings, and I think we have been through so much as as people over the last couple of years things. And I think there is more stress, there's a little bit more anxiety. And we're just getting back in the offices. There's just a lot up in the air. And I took a flight recently to visit a client and you could just feel the tension and the energy on the airplane. And I thought to myself, what can we do as human beings and specifically leaders? And something I've learned and I try to practice is non reactivity. And so we can't control the behaviors of others, right? Clients can be challenging, our coerce can be challenging. People we interact with it at the store can be challenging. But if we can just before we react, taking a step back, taking a deep breath and just trying to relax and not react, not try not to get angry or say something that we can't take back or write an email that we can never unsend. Just stop, breathe and take a moment because it will it will help yourself and the people around you immensely. And that's to me a great component of leadership.

Steve:
That's a great tip. And it won't apply just to CX, but it apply to everything you do. So I'm going to try to remember that one myself, so…

Michelle:
It's a journey. [laughing]

Steve:
It is. And you know, I'm quite a bit older than you are. And we're still learning even we're learning throughout all our lives. And and but Michelle, really, thank you for being a guest on the on the podcast. I enjoyed it very much. And if anybody would like to continue the dialog with you, you want to just give them some of your particulars, like how they might be able to find you at Walker or LinkedIn or something like that.

Michelle:
Absolutely. I can be contacted at Walker, at mburetta@walkerinfo.com. I can also be found on LinkedIn, Michelle and Buretta. And so I would love to connect with anyone out there who is looking to chat and learn more.

Steve:
Hey, thanks again not only for your service to Walker, but especially for your service to our country and all of the people that enjoy our freedoms here.

Michelle:
Thank you so much. And I want to say thank you to everyone out there who has served, who has lost someone who has served, and to all of those who will serve our country is what it is because of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice, particularly as we observe Memorial Day.

Steve:
Thank you. If you want to talk about anything else you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your business customer experience, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Be sure to check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com. To subscribe to the show, find all of our previous episodes, podcast, series and contact information. You can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing or suggest an idea for a future podcast. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experienced management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. We'll see you again next time.

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