The CX Leader Podcast: "The CX Book of Knowledge": Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

The CX Leader Podcast: "The CX Book of Knowledge": this wav audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Steve:
You know what would be really helpful for CX pros? Some sort of general knowledge resource, the encyclopedia of CX, the tome of wisdom for customer experience professionals. Well, it turns out there's something in the works.

Heather:
So it's my hope that The Book of Knowledge over time, first of all, it's not the it's not a one and done right. It should evolve over time. And second of all, my vision is that it will at some point be seen as the repository of that information for the profession.

Steve:
We're talking about The CX Book of Knowledge on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast and thank you for listening. As we like to say here on the podcast, it's never been a better time to be a CX leader. And we explore the topics and themes that help leaders like you deliver amazing experiences for your customers. Today's technology allows for peer driven collaboration on an unprecedented level. People from across the globe can create knowledge, resources on Wikipedia or develop software on GitHub and share it with the world. There are even ways to create art and music collaboratively online, so it only makes sense that a group of CX pros decided that the customer experience profession needed some sort of playbook that, quote, "documents, CX terms, tactics and approaches based on the CXPA CX framework." Well, my guest today started this project with a simple post to the CXPA forum asking if anyone would like to help create such a resource. She now leads this project. Heather Gillbanks is a CCXP and director and customer experience and customer center of excellence lead at Cornerstone Building Brands. Heather, I'm so delighted to have you on the podcast and welcome.

Heather:
Thank you. You did such a great introduction. I feel like I won't need to answer any questions.

Steve:
Oh, I've got a lot of questions for you. And, you know, maybe just to start out a little bit of your background, how you got to be a CCXP. I know most of us didn't start out to do that, so it's always kind of an interesting journey.

Heather:
So yeah, I actually have, as I think a lot of professionals do, a little bit of an unusual career path. I started my career in 100% commission sales and then I spent a couple of decades in I.T. And change management leading very large scale implementation projects and big change initiatives at major multinationals. During that time, I realized that I had gotten too far away from the customer, so I started on a professional journey to work my way back towards the customer and found myself back in the CX space.

Steve:
And tell me just a little bit about your organization as well too.

Heather:
Yeah. So we are the largest manufacturer of building products that you probably have never heard of. We go to market under a collection of brands that you may have heard of Plygem Windows or MasTec, for example.

Steve:
Oh yeah.

Heather:
Yeah. So we do a lot of external building, basically the envelope of a building.

Steve:
Residential and commercial or mostly residential.

Heather:
It's a mix. Yeah, it's both. We also do remodels, so it's pretty much anything on the outside of a building aside from brick.

Steve:
And now it makes a lot of sense as to why you're in the Elkhart/South Bend area, which is a huge industry for that region of the country in our state. So. Well, let's talk a little bit about The CX Book of Knowledge. How did you come up with the idea?

Heather:
You know, it initially kind of started off as a discussion about a playbook, but we intentionally made a move away from the notion of a playbook because when we started to really discuss it, we realized that a playbook needs to be specific to the culture of an organization. And so what we did is we kind of morphed it into, like I mentioned, I have a project management background. And so there's the Project Management Institute has something called the Project Management Book of Knowledge was the first edition was released in the 70s, and it has evolved over time to be basically an encyclopedia of all of the things that a professional should know about in that in that profession. And through the course of that time, project managers began to be seen as a profession. So it's my hope that The Book of Knowledge over time, first of all, is not the it's not a one and done right. It should evolve over time. And second of all, my vision is that it will at some point be seen as the repository of that information for the profession.

Steve:
Yeah. And I think like you, I've been around the industry for a while and and I have seen our profession continue to evolve and become more professional. You know, I can't tell you how long we talked about having a certification and now we do. You're a CCXP. And so this just seems like a really a natural next step. What's kind of the the goal we used Wikipedia there in the is it going to be dynamic? Is it going to be or will there be some control over the content?

Heather:
There will be control over the content. So so the I think there were two questions there. So the first question is, how will it be published? Is that what you're asking?

Steve:
Yeah. What's the end game here?

Heather:
Yeah. So for CX day, we intend to have two options for people. One of them is if you are a member of the CXPA, you will be able to download an e-book version as a member benefit, and then for an additional charge, you'll be able to get a print copy shipped to you.

Steve:
And for some of our folks that may not be familiar, CD Day is usually in early October, right?

Heather:
Correct. Yeah, it's…

Steve:
First Tuesday or something like that?

Yeah, something like that. I should look that up.

Steve:
Well we'll, we'll put it on the website but yeah that's that's an awesome benefit. Great.

Heather:
We hope that people will agree with that. Yes.

Steve:
Oh I want my copy. I want to reserve it right now. Who's working on it?

Heather:
It's a team of volunteers around the world. We have folks in the Middle East, in the US, Canada, Australia, all sorts of places, and that was intentional. We have a mix of people who are practitioners as well as people who are consultants. And again, that was intentional. We structured it around the domains of knowledge that came out of the recent, fairly recent research where the CXPA consolidated from the six domains to five. So we've structured it around the newer five structure. And what we did is we paired up two co-leads, one who is a consultant and one who is a practitioner. In all but one case, we just couldn't find a practitioner in that space.

Steve:
Okay. And what are the five domains? Just again, just for…

Heather:
It came from a study called the Job Analysis Advanced Summary for Content. They are so domain one is customer insights and understanding, domain two is CX strategy, domain three is metrics, measurement and ROI, domain four is design, implementation and innovation., and the fifth one is culture and accountability.

Steve:
That's going to be a great resource. I just want to jot those down just for my own perspective. What do you hope this does for the profession, besides make it a little more mainstream? But…

Heather:
I hope it starts to make people think about it more as a profession and not something you do until you find something else. I really feel strongly that we don't give customers always the attention and love that we should, and I hope that this will help people see this as a real thing and not it's not just surveys. There's a lot more to this than than a lot of people think. So that's my hope, is that it helps move the profession forward.

Steve:
So remind me, when did you first hatch this idea?

Heather:
It was October, November 2020. We started talking about it on the forum and then I did a call for volunteers. We had about maybe 200, 220 people who put their hands up. Ultimately, between 50 and 60 are actually contributing actually probably up to 70, because we pulled in a few additional writers in the last few weeks. We needed some just boost to get it over the finish. Yeah, we're going to editing this week. So it was important that we hit that deadline so that it could make it to the print process.

Steve:
So by the time you release it at CXDday, you will have worked on it for about two years?

Heather:
Yeah, probably. Yeah, I guess so. Hopefully.

Steve:
And just just take me through that journey. What, what are some of the high points and maybe I won't say low points, but what, what things were kind of challenges that you had to overcome or…

Heather:
Scheduling was definitely one of the most difficult ones because we had people literally all over the globe. So we did a lot of asynchronous types of communications. The CXPA set up groups for us online so we could post things back and forth. But definitely meeting times was the most challenging because you want you want feedback from people whenever you can get it, preferably in the moment. It's a little harder to wait until the next day for somebody to ask you a question, and then you have to circle back again. So.

Steve:
So you stayed up late sometimes and got up early some other times?

Heather:
Yes. I'm a big believer. When I was at the multinational before, I used to call it share the joy and I would switch my because I had people in what we called all three poles. So I had people in North America, Europe and Asia. And so one staff meeting was in my my nice time, one was in Europe, nice time and one was in Asia nice time.

Steve:
Yep. Yeah. And I think the Europeans win in those deals most usually. Yeah, yeah. Because they're in the middle. But yeah, actually I've always had fun. We have some international clients and you know, I'll run into one of my colleagues every once in a while and they'll say, Yeah, got a conference call with Asia tonight at 11 p.m. or something. You know.

Heather:
Worst.

Steve:
Yeah.

Heather:
It's worse when you work there.

Steve:
Hey. My guest on the podcast this week is Heather Gillbanks. She's a CCXP and a director at Cornerstone Building Brands. But what we're really talking about is her vision and her energy and her insight to create The CX Book of Knowledge. What's been the best part about it?

Heather:
Honestly, I have learned so much. I was reasonably knowledgeable as a CCXP, but I have learned a ton. So many different perspectives about how to do CX. I had I came from a big company where there's one way to do things and now I have seen 30, 40, 50 different ways to do some of these things. So that has been pretty exciting for me.

Steve:
And this really will be like a, I mean, it'll be a reference material which, you know, all studies need really. I mean, any, any kind of academic rigor would have some sort of kind of go to reference, right?

Heather:
Right. It's not really intended as an exam guide. So I did want to make that distinction. Yeah, there are the registered training providers who do a fantastic job of making sure that they prep people for the exam. This is really intended more as a reference for the professional, whether they're studying or long certified, that if we don't all do everything every day right. So maybe you haven't done a strategy deck in a while and you just need to go refresh on what should I make sure I include? Or maybe you haven't done a business case in a while. What are the five things I need to make sure are in that deck so that I don't look stupid when I go to my boss.

Steve:
Know this is going to be tremendous. So I imagine this has had pretty significant impact on your career.

Heather:
Not yet. [laughing]

Steve:
Well…

Heather:
Not yet. No, not yet.

Steve:
Not even going through the process. I know you said. Well, you learned a lot.

Heather:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve:
What else did you have in your notes that maybe we haven't talked about as much?

Heather:
So the structure of the project, I think, has been kind of interesting. Like I said, we have five different teams. Yep, but each team has worked completely differently. Some of them are working in Microsoft, OneDrive, and they're all on a call at the same time. Others are on Slack and it's completely asynchronous and they send stuff to each other. And I don't know how they sort that all out, but they do. Yeah. And so it's been interesting to me that we gave the exact same brief to all five teams. Here's your area, here's the ten things we want to make sure you do. Go for it. And they have all done it in a very different way, but they're getting to the goal. So I found that really fascinating.

Steve:
And you mentioned each of the domains has a practitioner and a consultant…

Heather:
Right.

Steve:
…co-lead it.

Heather:
Yeah.

Steve:
And then you're 50 or 60 volunteers are assigned to each of the…

Heather:
Yeah. Basically we parceled them out, we did a survey because that's what we know how to do. Right. Yeah. To ask people what their interest area was. And we were fairly lucky that we had a good sort of cross-section of people who volunteered. We also took some volunteers, I should mention. We call them support officers. They didn't feel like they were knowledgeable enough to write, but they wanted to contribute in some ways. So what we had those folks do, like Megan Fenn, for example, kept me honest, made sure that we were having meetings regularly enough that meeting notes were posted and all that sort of stuff. And she told me not too long ago that she felt like she had learned a lot during the meetings and by reading some of the content as it was coming through. So I just want to give the support folks a shout out to because there are plenty of roles. You know, there's writers, editors, support people. There's a lot of people that it takes to put something like this together, so.

Steve:
I imagine. And are you going to be kind of the final editor? Is that part of the deal?

Heather:
Not the CXPA did a wonderful thing and they hired a professional editor to really go through it. So I am super grateful for that because I do have a day job and don't know how excited my boss would be about me spending all of my time editing the document. So Gabe and I, if you guys don't know Gabe.

Steve:
Yeah, I know. Guy just was on a meeting with him earlier today.

Heather:
Perfect. Yeah. Gabe and I are going to do a pass to make sure that there's not too many overlaps and gaps…

Steve:
Yeah.

Heather:
…but then it's going to an actual professional editor, which is pretty exciting.

Steve:
Yeah, perfect. Especially when you've had five different groups. Right. And there's going to be some style.

Heather:
And.

Steve:
Formatting and things like that.

Heather:
So yeah, I mean, we created a style guide, but you're right, people just write the way that they write.

Steve:
So yeah, I changed tenses all the time. That's what people always tell me. So but I kind of I think I write the way I talk, so.

Heather:
Most people do.

Steve:
Yeah.

Heather:
Which is not a big deal.

Steve:
Yeah.

Heather:
The other thing that I'd like people to know really is that this is the first edition. We anticipate that there will be many more to come. Even though this has gone through a peer review process, we recognize it is the first, let's call it a draft, right. We know there are going to be some gaps and there's definitely going to be room for improvement. So if somebody reads a section and is like, I could do better than that, they should absolutely reach out and we will make sure that they get the opportunity to do just that.

Steve:
Well, like any reference book, I mean, you know, the practice is not going to be static. We're going to continue to innovate. There will be new technologies, new discoveries. So, yeah, that seems like a very, very good plan. Yeah. Is there any kind of promotion or besides being on The CX Leader Podcast and and building up to the CX Day this year?

Heather:
So I've done a few podcasts. Also, Michele Spall, who's leading a parallel project, somewhat related. It's Monograph series for professionals dealing with the other functions within the organization. She and I have done several podcasts. There were some videos for last CX Day. I believe the CXPA is going to do a great deal of promotion based on my discussion with Greg and Gabe.

Steve:
Yeah, they do a fantastic job and it makes perfect sense. I'm really glad that they embraced it. I'm not surprised, but I'm glad because it's just a perfect space for CXPA to step in and fill that role. But obviously you are a real visionary on this, so big kudos to you for actually.

Heather:
What happens when you ask a question. You end up in charge of it, right?

Steve:
Yeah. I mean, I think I have faith that this is going to come back to you in in many positive ways, because it's just such a nice contribution, I think, to the profession and something that's that's been missing. So. Heather, I want to go back a little bit to sort of the process of getting the volunteers because again, this is something that you kind of dreamed up and and asked a question on an online forum. You said you had about 200 people that sort of expressed an interest, but in the end, you end up with 50 or 60 contributors. But why would those people want to do that? What's been the attraction for these folks to to jump on this project?

Heather:
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, some of them, like me, just really wanted to move the profession forward, but it doesn't hurt to have some more concrete things that you recognize people with. So there's actually six things that the CXPA we agreed that we were going to do for the contributors. One of them is is a chance to contribute in your own voice to the advancement of the profession. One of them is that the volunteer work counts towards the CCXP continuing education credit. So we made sure that however many hours they've put in that that counts towards their credit. There will be a badge on the CXPA website and forums that that's coming out and I believe they are going to actually add one to LinkedIn as well for people who are contributors. The leadership team, so those ten folks who worked on the two team, on the five team, so two people per plus myself and the chief support officer, we're also we're all going to get an author and editor credit and then active contributors will all be recognized on a callout page. And then in addition to that, the original writer of every section is going to be credited within that section. So you'll know who who wrote a particular chunk.

Steve:
Well, before we get off this podcast, I'm going to make sure that we take some time to make sure that all of our listeners know how to get it. And yeah, we'll do that. But, you know, it's it's sort of a tradition and I can't think of a better episode in which we would get some take home value. But every guest, Heather, and you're no exception, I ask them for their one tip or their best idea that you would hope that a listener would take away from this podcast today, and that as a CX pro they could improve what they're doing almost immediately.

Heather:
Starting tomorrow, if you are not a member of the CXPA, shame on you. Go join and get active in the forum. There is so much knowledge out there and it is yours for the taking and asking. It's only as good as those of us who contribute. But that is something that I talked to so many CX pros who don't realize that that forum is as active as it is. And so I would say if you're not actively out there, definitely make sure your membership is up to date and go check it out. And also you'll be able to download the book when it comes out.

Steve:
There you go. You know, we've had a long partnership with CXPA and they do a tremendous job. And this is just another perfect example of how our profession continues to mature and and professionalize. So but kudos to you, Heather, what a visionary you are. And congratulations on on your baby about to be born here.

Heather:
So, yes.

Steve:
Hey, before you go, let's make sure that everybody once again knows how to get a hold of the copy and obviously a great reason to join the CXPA if you're not already.

Heather:
Yeah, it'll be cxpa.org. Look for the CX Day activities that are going to be happening in early October and I am sure it will be very hard to miss.

Steve:
Hey Heather, thank you for being a guest on The CX Leader Podcast. Best of luck. Can't wait to see The CX Book of Knowledge come out and hopefully we'll get you back on the podcast at some point, too.

Heather:
Thank you. It's my pleasure.

Steve:
And if anybody would want to continue the conversation, I know I found you on LinkedIn and or any other kind of quick way that they could connect with you.

Heather:
Yep. I'm on LinkedIn. Like I mentioned, I'm on the CXPA Forum fairly regularly. And yeah, those are probably the two best ways.

Steve:
Okay, great. Again, my guest on the podcast this week has been Heather Gillbanks. She's a CCXP, a real advocate and proponent of the CXPA and her day job is the director and customer experience and customer center of excellence lead at Cornerstone Building Brands. Delightful podcast guest. So thanks again, Heather.

Heather:
My pleasure.

Steve:
If you want to talk about anything you heard on the podcast or about how Walker can help your business's customer experience, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. If you have a minute, be sure to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating through your podcast service and be sure to write a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value for all of you, our listeners and our future listeners. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to subscribe to the show and find all of our previous 200 plus episodes. We organize them by series and topics, so it's very referenceable and we also have our contact information on there. So you can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing, or suggest the idea for a future podcast. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at Walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening. And remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader and we will see you again next time.

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