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Steve:
As CX pros, we sometimes assume that the experiences we create will basically be interpreted the same way to everyone. But not everyone experiences the world in the same way.

Stacy:
Talk to each of the segments of different abilities so that you get educated. Make it a trusting, no judgment culture where you can make it, where people are invited to have the conversation.

Steve:
How organizations can create experiences that include people who navigate the world in a different way. On this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast with Steve Walker is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello, everyone. I'm Steve Walker, host of The CX Leader Podcast. And thank you for listening. It's never been a better time to be a CX leader and we explore the topics and themes to help leaders like you deliver amazing experiences to your customers. I'm generally an optimistic person and I like to feel people want to do good things for others. But it's easy to assume that everyone sees the world with similar eyes. We live in a diverse world with people that have different needs, so it's important that CX professionals plan and accommodate so that the experience is accessible and meaningful for all of their customers. Well, I'm very excited about my guest today who's going to teach us more about how we can be more mindful for people with different needs and designing programs to accommodate all of their customers. Stacy Sherman is a customer experience and marketing keynote speaker, content creator and fellow podcast host with Doing CX Right. Stacy, thanks for being a guest on The CX Leader Podcast.

Stacy:
Thank you. These are my favorite topics, so appreciate it.

Steve:
Well, I'm happy to have you on. And for some people who aren't familiar with you, just tell us a little bit about how you became a CX pro and kind of what your background is. We always like to explore the various ways that people got to be here because most of us didn't do it on purpose. Right?

Stacy:
That is exactly right. I have always been in sales and marketing. Without giving my age away, it was before the internet was alive and I was doing my thing, working in many different companies and telecom specifically for many, many years, which brought out dial up and digital and all the things we use today. And and then one of the roles I had a boss who said to me, Stacy, you know, we're going to give you an additional role and start doing customer experience and looking at the voice of the customer and measurements. And so I said, well, what is CX? And he said, I don't know. Just figure it out. I said, Oh, okay. Now, mind you, I did not like that boss. However, I thank that boss today because, A, I've never left CX, and B, every problem I go get or that I don't know what it is, I now figure it out. So thank you to that person. But I fell into it.

Steve:
Yeah. Yeah. And you came up from kind of the traditional sales and marketing side, which I think is actually a great way to come into CX because CX has to be pervasive throughout the organization. It really can't be… It can't be successful if it's just a department. It has to influence everything. And I think marketing has always been the closest to that in the organization. But and then also interesting, you came out of telecom. You know, I've been in the business even longer than you, way longer than you. But some of the origins of these longitudinal customer satisfaction measurements go back to the regulated utilities who didn't have competition. And they used these studies to prove that they were providing value to customers who really didn't have any other choice. So kind of an interesting kind of historical point for our our profession.

Stacy:
Yeah. And one other thing that's a fun, fun fact is that I remember the day exactly where I was – I was in high school – and I was in a class around consumer behaviors and mental mindsets and a little bit of psychology. And we were studying subliminal advertising and I thought, how cool is that to really try to understand what makes people do what they do. And buy and, and, and interact. And so it was as basic as that that led me down my path to go study what I studied over the years. And then obviously the Internet happened and it and it blew up. But I think it's the same with CX that you have to really pay attention to so many factors that move people, that make them feel a certain way. So it's all interrelated.

Steve:
Yeah, I think that's the noble part of our profession, is that if you do believe in free market economy, which I do, and I think it is a good solution for for most people, but, you know, it ought to be done in a way that benefits the customers and the employees. And I think that's really what we do. I think we help the good guys win, right?

Stacy:
And we're the nicest people ever see. CX people are just so kind. I just had to say, that's truthful.

Steve:
Yeah, well, I think it's because of the business we're in. You know, it isn't that hard to be nice, right. And polite. And that's kind of the start of, you know, creating good experiences for people. All right, Stacy, let's get into our topic, which I'm really excited about. You know, diversity, inclusion, these are really important topics. And again, they really pervade everything. So, you know, give us a couple of examples of some of the ways that people navigate the world differently or, you know, have needs that companies should account for.

Stacy:
Yes. So first of all, I want to state upfront that I myself don't have different abilities, but my family members do. And so I've learned so much from them day to day as well as studying this. So just want to give people the perspective, the kinds of factors we're talking about. So there's the obvious of mobility. You actually can see that people need an elevator, they need a ramp. And interesting enough, I never thought I'd fall into the industry. I worked at Schindler Elevator Corporation for several years, so I got a real sense of like, wow, elevators are more than just a thing that goes up and down. But those are the kinds of things that you have to plan for. You have to design for people that don't have that mobility freedom. Then there's the visual impairments. So people need large print or Braille or audio descriptions in order to experience a brand. You have hearing impairments. Some people need sign language and interpreters and captioning for the spoken information. You've got cognitive disabilities, so you really have to put things in simple language and pictures and symbols. You've got sensory sensitivities where there's loud noises or bright lights that really affect instantly how someone feels and can experience. So all of these are just examples, and I want to make it very clear that these things are somewhat visible to your eye and my eye. And there are so many disabilities that you can't see and we have to be very careful not to make assumptions or stereotypes that that's really huge. It's not always what you what we know and see.

Steve:
Yeah. I think that's always, you know, you just never know what someone else is dealing with. It's just incumbent. But I actually wrote your list. I think it's really helpful just to think, think about that mobility, visual, hearing, cognitive, sensory, and then everything else that we can't see. So how would you instruct a company who just was starting in this to to sort of make sure that they're incorporating this because all people are potential customers and we want to try to provide our services and products as best we can to to the maximum size of the market. So how would you think about accommodating customers and employees, for that matter, who who maybe have some of these different needs?

Stacy:
So this is really about doing the basics. One, get educated. How do you get educated? Well, as we talk in CX speak voice of the employee, voice of the customer. So literally ask. Sit down with some of these people and ask them the questions. Ask them to to give you perspective, I want to learn about what is it like in your shoes? Go shadow someone for a day and live in their… in their role. What's it like for them? You'll get so much information. So not only does it, you get to educate yourself, but you're also creating a culture of caring that those employees can see. You're not just talking about it, but you're really reinforcing by caring. And so have that open dialog and get the voice of that employee and that and that customer and the things that you're doing and products you're creating. Also, there are organizations. There's many organizations and associations. Talk to them, look at their websites, look at the resources that are available and those advocates in your community. I also believe once you get a feel for getting educated, do an accessibility audit. So for example, go walk the building as if you had some of the different abilities we talked about. Go on your website and look at it. Do you have certain colors on certain backgrounds that are hard to actually read. Like there's a real science to this, get educated, do an audit, or have someone who's an expert in this, the UX side of the business and make sure that everything you do is not made for you, but for the potential of all those with different abilities.

Steve:
Yeah, it's really just about, I think, being aware and having some empathy, right?

Stacy:
It's empathy, but it's also. Yes, but it's the intentional desire every single day.

Steve:
And it's an ongoing basis too, because there's always, you know, new learnings.

Steve:
Remember the CX Now series we just wrapped up not too long ago here on The CX Leader Podcast? Well, we just published a new e-book highlighting each of the essential themes driving CX. You can download it at walkerinfo.com/cxnow. And don't forget about our blog. That's right, we have a blog and we update it regularly. Check it out at walkerinfo.com/blog. There's a ton of great experience management content available and the best part, it's free. That's walkerinfo.com/blog.

Steve:
Hey, my guest on the podcast this week is Stacey Sherman. She's a CX expert, fellow podcaster, keynote speaker, and we're having a delightful conversation about how to recognize and accommodate customers and employees who maybe have different needs. Okay, so let's turn it a little more now to the CX pro and what do they need to do to be designing experiences and make sure that they're incorporating the needs of all these segments?

Stacy:
Yeah. So I think the biggest one, which we talked about before, is ask. Talk to each of the segments of different abilities so that you get educated and not just you as the business leader, but everybody. Make it a trusting, no judgment culture where you can make it where people are, are invited to have the conversation, to go to somebody and make sure you're hiring people with different abilities. So there's people to go to and learn from and appreciate. That's important. And so have that dialog and make sure that you're hiring people who are also comfortable not shying away from the conversations because in the end they just won't be happy. So it's it's truly culture and intentionally design how your customers experience, how they learn and buy and get your products no matter who they are. You have to design that.

Steve:
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking it probably is applicable to any business or organization, but particularly I'd say for widespread consumer applications, like for example, phone service. You know, everybody really needs to use a phone, right? So can you talk to any of your past experiences? Has that somewhat influenced you as you saw some of these, you know, leading organizations kind of pioneer this this type of offering to to diverse people?

Stacy:
Yeah. So let's take a real case here. Back at that time when I was at a telecom company, we had initiated what was new at that time was buy online, pick up at store. Well, and you also have to give the people the ability to not have to go to the store. Right. So you have to identify how are people in that customer journey going to get their product. So you give them options. Now, let's say I live near a local retail store. I buy online. Now I'm going to go pick up a store. When you go pick up at store, is that designed for someone in a wheelchair? Is there a special cue that they can wait on a line or not have to wait on a line and can get what they already paid for and get out? Or are they all intermingled? The people that are coming to buy in the store and have a lot more time needed to someone just coming to pick up. Also, especially if we're talking about a cell phone, you're buying a new cell phone. It used to be, and it's still hard for some, to take your old phone and get that data onto your new phone. Well, how trained are the the employees to help someone who can't see? Right. So those are the kind of examples where it's everything. Every company, even in B2B. You sell something and you have customer service agents who work for you and they're helping other enterprises. And are they equipped with the technology they need based on their individual needs? Right? It's so applicable.

Steve:
Yeah. You know, I'm just in my every day, day to day work life I don't really think about this very much. But now just talking to you like you think about going through security at the airport. You know, they have to accommodate lots of different things. You know, again, it's just sort of another touch point, I guess, of how you would think about how you might apply that to your business.

Stacy:
So that example is perfect. It actually makes me cringe because I'll give you a link to a video I did with a woman who went through the airport and ended up getting, I don't know, the security ended up triggering has to get pat down and already embarrassed the way they live life. And she said to me, Stacy. There's such a difference between someone patting you down with a frown and like an anger look to someone who's smiling and you know, they're just doing their job. But like, the smallest thing can make it less embarrassing or uncomfortable. And even what they were asking her to do, she physically couldn't do it.

Steve:
Yeah.

Stacy:
Right. So your your example is perfect. It's like everyday living is anybody who's designing that process thinking about all cases? No.

Steve:
Probably not. Actually, now you're making me think, like, probably health care is a place where you could really find some good examples. You know, caregivers are special people anyway. And obviously, you know, almost by the very nature of health care, you're dealing with somebody that has some sort of issue that they're trying to overcome or or dealing with, which could be chronic or could be temporary. But…

Stacy:
I want to comment on that. Another thing people don't think about. So in health care, you pick a doctor, you really have a great rapport with, especially if you're if it's not easy for you, mobility wise or any wise.

Steve:
You have a special condition.

Stacy:
Right? Think about how often the front desk the people to make an appointment with make a difficult. So here you love your doctor but it is so much effort to just get to the doctor. Guess what? They're going to leave.

Steve:
Yeah. What are some cases you've seen where people have really done this well? Or give me a couple of examples of some success stories that you've seen in your career.

Stacy:
I will tell you where I am a customer and I study every time I go to Trader Joe's. Whenever I go there, I feel like I'm there to obviously shop for my own food, but I can't help study every aspect, every corner of what's going on because they're doing so much right. And I've seen, for example, where this woman was trying to bag her stuff and she it was pouring rain. And the guy says, listen, let me help you. I'm even going to take you with my umbrella to your car. I mean, that's up and beyond. That's not Trader Joe's policy. It's something so simple. You know, it's those small moments that go up and beyond that that people put themselves in that customer shoes and says, Let me make it easier for you. So that is an example where it was going up and beyond. And I think they actually would have done it for me, not in a wheelchair. It's just that's what their culture is. And there are many restaurants that I've seen who have the right walkway and the right setup in the design of what their inside looks like. So basically getting in there, being able to have a table that is that is conducive for where they can sit.

Steve:
Yeah.

Stacy:
Restrooms. I mean, literally someone mapped out that journey. There's a restaurant I've been to that was just perfected for all of us.

Steve:
Let's talk really kind of practical. What should companies be doing to adapt their experiences or making their current experience just a little in general, make it more available to more people?

Stacy:
Yeah. So I think it starts with getting buy in at the top to make sure that there's an investment into developing products and services and even accommodations for staff around this. So build that business case, create some pilot programs so you can prove that the investments are warranted and can scale. And that's similar to CX in general. I mean, we all have to prove the value of CX to be able to get more funding. So this is no different. It's just another layer. And I do believe in pilot programs. That's the way I've been able to get adoption of everything I've ever wanted to bring into a company or consult others to do so. Create small tests and show. I'm also a huge, huge fan of user testing, so there are many tools where you can put your website in front of prospects or the user community and ask them how easy or difficult is it to do ABC? They'll tell you. And it is it is gold that feedback so that you can optimize for what you don't know and realize. And I also would say people are getting familiar with persona development and journey mapping, and that's really good news. Where they're missing is the persona for that diversity, that inclusion, those segments. So expand it, make sure you're doing that. And if you're not doing persona development and journey mapping, then start and just make sure you're including it and then map out how is that that customer, that segment going to learn about your products and services? How are they going to buy, get, use, pay and get help? Customer service as we know it? It's going to be different than you and I. So you have to intentionally design those, and I don't think everybody's thinking that way.

Steve:
Wow, that's a great tip. I had not thought about the persona development. That's a that's a great application of that technique. So thanks for sharing that. That was worth showing up for right there. Hey, Stacy, we reached that point in the program and you've given us so many good ideas. But I always ask our guests to sort of leave our listeners with kind of one idea that they could take back that where they could really improve their program around this topic. So, Stacy Sherman, it's your turn for take home value on this episode of The CX Leader.

Stacy:
Well, thank you. I would say in addition to persona and journey mapping for this segment, go walk in the shoes of people with different abilities, spend the day with them, shadow them so that you have an appreciation to make your business and the products and the services that you have now or that you're going to go build to differentiate. You need that and it's easy to do and it will change you even as a person for the better.

Steve:
Wow, that's nice. I think this just doing this podcast made me a little better person. So thank you for being such a great guest on the podcast. Stacy Sherman is a customer experience and marketing, keynote speaker, content creator and podcast host. Her podcast is called Doing CX Right. Stacy, thanks for being such a great guest on The CX Leader Podcast.

Stacy:
Thank you. Appreciate it.

Steve:
And if anybody would like to continue the conversation, I know I found you on LinkedIn, but it sounds like they could go to your podcast Doing CX Right? And do you have your own website or…

Stacy:
Yes, I do. doingcxright.com has my blog, my resources, my podcasts and ways to get in touch with me and I'm on every social channel.

Steve:
Great. Thanks again. It was a real pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Stacy:
Thank you.

Steve:
If you want to talk about anything else you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your customer experience needs, feel free to email me at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Remember to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating through your podcast service and give us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our listener. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to subscribe to the show and find all our previous episodes, podcast series and contact information. You can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing or suggest an idea for a future podcast. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. So go out there and add a little persona to your CX program and take a walk in other people's shoes. We'll see you again next time.

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